Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

The clause allows the Secretary of State by order to continue to enforce the scheme established under section 26 of the 1947 Act. I imagine that a year or so ago most people assumed that new pension arrangements would have been brought in. The inclusion of the clause suggests to me that, if Ministers intend using it, there will inevitably be a gap between Royal Assent to the Bill and the 1947 Act ceasing to have effect so that new pension arrangements come into force.

The Government will have to decide quickly whether to use the power in the clause because there cannot be any discontinuity—an order will have to be made. It seems to me that an order cannot be made under clause 35 until after Royal Assent, yet the 1947 Act will cease to have effect upon Royal Assent. Will there not then be a gap—a lacuna—for the 1947 Act scheme? How will the Under-Secretary deal with it?

That is entirely the purpose of the clause: to ensure that the current pension arrangements provided by the Fireman's Pensions Scheme Order 1992, which was made under section 26 of the 1947 Act, can continue in operation despite the repeal of the Act.

Surely the point is that an order under the Bill cannot be made until the Bill is enacted. Does that not mean that the 1947 Act will have ceased to have effect?

The commencement of the Act is also by order and that includes the repeal of the 1947 Act, so both measures would happen simultaneously.

The Under-Secretary must not get exasperated if we pursue the matter by question and answer. Is he saying that the provisions for commencement allow clause 35 to come into force before the clause that causes the 1947 Act to cease to have effect? That may be the solution: clause 35 comes into effect first and an order under it is made; and later, separately, the clause that causes the 1947 Act to cease to have effect comes into effect. Is that what the Under-Secretary is telling us?

I refer the hon. Gentleman to clause 58, which makes it clear that parts 1 to 6 come into force in accordance with provision made by the Secretary of State by order. That clause allows us to introduce both measures in a way that does not risk a lacuna, as he describes it.

The clause would allow the pension scheme to be modified, if we so wished; I have described the arrangements for public consultation. It would also allow for the name of the scheme to be altered. Although it is normally called ''the firefighters pension

scheme'', the terms of the 1947 Act require it to be called in any statutory order ''the firemen's pension scheme''—something that is, frankly, out of date.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 35 ordered to stand part of the Bill.