Clause 22 - Intervention by Secretary of State

Fire and Rescue Services Bill – in a Public Bill Committee at 5:45 pm on 24 February 2004.

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Photo of Philip Hammond Philip Hammond Shadow Minister (Communities and Local Government) 5:45, 24 February 2004

I beg to move amendment No. 92, in

clause 22, page 10, line 37, leave out from 'failing' to end of line 38 and insert

'to discharge its functions under sections 6, 7, 8 and 9.'.

Photo of Edward O'Hara Edward O'Hara Labour, Knowsley South

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment No. 93, in

clause 22, page 10, line 39, leave out from 'authority' to first 'the' in line 40 and insert

'discharges its functions under sections 6, 7, 8 and 9.'.

Amendment No. 98, in

clause 23, page 11, line 15, leave out from 'authority's' to 'as' in line 16 and insert

'discharge of its functions under sections 6, 7, 8 and 9'.

Photo of Philip Hammond Philip Hammond Shadow Minister (Communities and Local Government)

In tabling these amendments, we sought to address the Secretary of State's power to intervene where an authority is failing. Amendment No. 92 would remove from subsection (1) the reference to an authority that ''is likely to fail''. It is not unreasonable that the intervention should take place after the offence has occurred, not when the Secretary of State thinks that it might occur.

Together, the amendments would remove references to acting

''in accordance with the Framework'',

and substitute them with references to authorities discharging their functions under clauses 6, 7, 8 and 9. If an authority was properly discharging its core functions, it would be wholly inappropriate for the Secretary of State to intervene because it was not complying with all the requirements of the framework in relation to human resource issues or employment practices. If we do not limit the Secretary of State's powers to intervene to cases in which there has been a clear failure to discharge statutory functions, the concept of local accountability and autonomy will have become meaningless.

Amendment No. 98 would amend clause 23—again replacing the reference to compliance with clause 21 with a reference to the authority discharging its functions under clauses 6, 7, 8 and 9.

The amendments are necessary to preserve the autonomy of fire and rescue authorities, and to ensure that the draconian powers granted to the Secretary of State under the clause, which will be exercised under the best value audit system, will not be imposed on authorities merely for failing to comply with the national framework, but according to the much more important question of whether they are discharging their statutory functions in relation to fire, road traffic accidents, fire safety or any other duties that the Secretary of State might prescribe under clause 9. That should be the test of whether intervention is required.

Photo of Nick Raynsford Nick Raynsford Minister of State (Office of the Deputy Prime Minister) (Local and Regional Government)

I cannot accept the hon. Gentleman's amendment. He proposes that intervention should be delayed until the failure has taken place. Much of the evidence is that early intervention can help to avoid failure, and in the interests of public safety that is clearly paramount. National issues are accounted for in the framework which are also of importance.

It being Six o'clock, The Chairman proceeded, pursuant to Sessional Order C(9) [6 November 2003] and the Order of the Committee [10 February 2004], to put forthwith the Question already proposed from the Chair.

Question put, That the amendment be made:—

The Committee divided: Ayes 4, Noes 8

Division number 7 Adults Abused in Childhood — Clause 22 - Intervention by Secretary of State

Aye: 4 MPs

No: 8 MPs

Aye: A-Z by last name

No: A-Z by last name

Question accordingly negatived.

The Chairman then proceeded to put forthwith the Questions necessary to dispose of the business to be concluded at that time.

Clause 22 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 23 and 24 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Adjourned till Thursday 26 February at twenty-five minutes past Nine o'clock.