New clause 6 - Membership of district policing partnerships

Part of Police (Northern Ireland) Bill [Lords] – in a Public Bill Committee at 4:00 pm on 11 March 2003.

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Photo of David Wilshire David Wilshire Conservative, Spelthorne 4:00, 11 March 2003

Whatever politicians say or do, if they admit to belonging—they do so proudly in most cases—to the political wing of a terrorist organisation, whatever they want to call it, there is no point trying to hide and saying, ''Oh well, we are only the politicians.''

As far as I am concerned, Sinn Fein and the IRA are one and the same, and always have been. Any political party that sells itself as the political wing of a terrorist organisation is, by my definition, bound up in that terrorist organisation. Let us say that that terrorist organisation is still armed, shooting people, setting fire to houses and chasing people out of Northern Ireland. If that is still going on, as it is, it is terrorism, and the people to whom I am referring are part and parcel of that terrorist organisation.

That is how I see the situation, if that helps my hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe (Mr. Goodman). Others would draw a distinction, but I tend to say that it is by their deeds that we know people. I have never heard a member of a so-called independent political party that is attached to a terrorist organisation, on whichever side of the fence, denounce unequivocally the atrocities committed by the armed part of that political party. I am therefore clear in my mind, whereas others might not be.

What I have described has always seemed to me to be a totally unacceptable state of affairs. New clause 6 seeks only to clear that up once and for all—to me at least, it is self-evident that it needs to be added to the Bill. Paragraph 3(1) of schedule 3 to the 2000 Act says:

''A council shall exercise its power to appoint political members''.

Where it ends, the new clause would add proposed new sub-paragraph (1A), which states:

''Notwithstanding subparagraph (1) above no person may be appointed as a political member who has not renounced violence and ended all links with any organisation that has not yet disposed of all its weapons and explosives.''

The proposal is simple and straightforward. Someone in Northern Ireland, or elsewhere in the world for that matter, may say that it is unreasonable, unfair and no way to bring troubles to an end, but if those people have no further need for terrorism and if they do not intend their politics to involve returning to the guns and explosives that they have hidden away should they be unable to get their own way through the ballot box, it is simple and straightforward to say that they renounce all that and break all their links with the past.

If a politician will not do that, we are entitled to draw the conclusion that they are still prepared to use terrorism to get their own way. If we draw that conclusion, it is intolerable for such people to have oversight of or partnership arrangements with the police service, whether in Northern Ireland or anywhere else. We would not contemplate allowing unreformed bank robbers to be involved in a committee with the Metropolitan police on the oversight of the serious crime unit at Scotland Yard. We would see that as preposterous, and anyone who suggested it would be seen as a fool.

In Northern Ireland, however, such things are allowed in the name of progress. If violence is over,

why are people still clinging on and demanding to be let into the process without making that crucial step? New clause 6 spells that out, and it would allow people to say once and for all whether they are democrats or terrorists. That is all I ask: which side is someone on? That question should be straightforward for everyone to answer. If there is no answer, one can assume only that people are hanging on to their guns for a reason.

New clause 7 flows from new clause 6. Paragraph 3(5) of schedule 3 to the 2000 Act says:

''A political member shall cease to hold office if—

(a) he resigns by notice in writing to the council;

(b) he becomes disqualified for membership of the DPP; or

(c) he ceases to be a member of the council.''

I would not imagine that anyone wants to quarrel with those provisions, but I suggest that the list is incomplete. New clause 7 would add two further reasons why a person should cease to hold office:

''(d) he is convicted of a terrorist related offence;

(e) he is found to have links to a terrorist organisation.''

I have no doubt that the lawyers in Committee could endlessly pick holes in my choice of words, so I am not wedded to the specific phrasing. However, what I am driving at should be clear: if someone is appointed having passed the requirements that I suggest and having severed their links with terrorism, but is subsequently convicted of a terrorist-related offence, even if that offence is from the past, they should be disqualified.

I am aware that some will say that we should live and let live and allow terrorists into our political organisations. I am just about able to stomach the idea of admitting apologists for terrorism, but I am not able to say that someone's involvement in a terrorist organisation in the past should not be taken into account. A criminal conviction in Great Britain bars a person from all sorts of activity. In my judgment, a terrorism conviction should bar people from dealing with the police in the way suggested. I am well aware of what I am saying. Past and future convictions should be taken into account.

The second proposal is also straightforward. If such a person is found to have links with a terrorist organisation having renounced it, they should cease to be a member due to all the arguments that I have given.

I have felt strongly about the provisions for a long time. I realise that people whom I would count among my friends in Northern Ireland would say that I am being unrealistic and that we should live and let live. I understand and respect that, but I have always baulked at the thought of murderers, maimers and torturers being allowed into such a process. I have felt that for a long time, and adding the two new clauses would make a lasting settlement in Northern Ireland more likely, rather than undermine what has been going on.