Police (Northern Ireland) Bill [Lords] – in a Public Bill Committee at 4:45 pm on 27 February 2003.
Rt Hon David Trimble
Leader of the Ulster Unionist Party
4:45,
27 February 2003
I beg to move Amendment No. 35, in
Clause 12, page 9, line 1, leave out 'he has' and insert
'the Board and the Secretary of State have'.
Joe Benton
Labour, Bootle
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following amendments: No. 36, in
Clause 12, page 9, line 1, leave out from 'he' to end of line 2 and insert
'is of the view that the policy or practice should be considered given that a member of the Police Service acting in accordance with that policy or practice has committed a criminal offence, or is responsible for conduct that gave rise to disciplinary proceedings'.
No. 107, in
clause 12, page 9, line 1, leave out 'public interest' and insert
'interests of upholding the rule of law.'.
No. 95, in
clause 12, page 9, leave out lines 3 to 7.
No. 37, in
clause 12, page 9, line 22, at end insert—
'(6) No investigation under this section shall extend to events or incidents that occurred before the coming into force of this section.''.'.
No. 65, in
clause 12, page 10, line 2, at end insert—
'(c) information the disclosure of which would, or would be likely to, prejudice the prevention or detection of crime or the apprehension or prosecution of offenders.'.
Rt Hon David Trimble
Leader of the Ulster Unionist Party
We have little time. I draw attention to Amendment No. 36, the important one in this group. It makes a simple point. The police ombudsman's essential function is to inquire into abuses by the police of their powers and to protect people from such abuses. Issues relating to practice and policy generally may arise out of such cases; hence the Patten report's references to practice and policy. However, it would be contrary to the essential concept of the ombudsman if he were to inquire into practice and policy generally, because those are matters for the Policing Board. It is a question of demarcation—
It being Five o'clock, The Chairman proceeded, pursuant to Sessional Order D [29 October 2002] and the Order of the Committee [23 February 2003], to put forthwith the Questions necessary to dispose of the business to be concluded at that time.
Question put, That clauses 12 to 16 stand part of the Bill:—
The Committee divided: Ayes 9, Noes 4.
Division number 6
Adults Abused in Childhood — Clause 12 - Investigations into current police practices and policies
A parliamentary bill is divided into sections called clauses.
Printed in the margin next to each clause is a brief explanatory `side-note' giving details of what the effect of the clause will be.
During the committee stage of a bill, MPs examine these clauses in detail and may introduce new clauses of their own or table amendments to the existing clauses.
When a bill becomes an Act of Parliament, clauses become known as sections.
Secretary of State was originally the title given to the two officials who conducted the Royal Correspondence under Elizabeth I. Now it is the title held by some of the more important Government Ministers, for example the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs.
As a bill passes through Parliament, MPs and peers may suggest amendments - or changes - which they believe will improve the quality of the legislation.
Many hundreds of amendments are proposed by members to major bills as they pass through committee stage, report stage and third reading in both Houses of Parliament.
In the end only a handful of amendments will be incorporated into any bill.
The Speaker - or the chairman in the case of standing committees - has the power to select which amendments should be debated.
A parliamentary bill is divided into sections called clauses.
Printed in the margin next to each clause is a brief explanatory `side-note' giving details of what the effect of the clause will be.
During the committee stage of a bill, MPs examine these clauses in detail and may introduce new clauses of their own or table amendments to the existing clauses.
When a bill becomes an Act of Parliament, clauses become known as sections.
The House of Commons votes by dividing. Those voting Aye (yes) to any proposition walk through the division lobby to the right of the Speaker and those voting no through the lobby to the left. In each of the lobbies there are desks occupied by Clerks who tick Members' names off division lists as they pass through. Then at the exit doors the Members are counted by two Members acting as tellers. The Speaker calls for a vote by announcing "Clear the Lobbies". In the House of Lords "Clear the Bar" is called. Division Bells ring throughout the building and the police direct all Strangers to leave the vicinity of the Members’ Lobby. They also walk through the public rooms of the House shouting "division". MPs have eight minutes to get to the Division Lobby before the doors are closed. Members make their way to the Chamber, where Whips are on hand to remind the uncertain which way, if any, their party is voting. Meanwhile the Clerks who will take the names of those voting have taken their place at the high tables with the alphabetical lists of MPs' names on which ticks are made to record the vote. When the tellers are ready the counting process begins - the recording of names by the Clerk and the counting of heads by the tellers. When both lobbies have been counted and the figures entered on a card this is given to the Speaker who reads the figures and announces "So the Ayes [or Noes] have it". In the House of Lords the process is the same except that the Lobbies are called the Contents Lobby and the Not Contents Lobby. Unlike many other legislatures, the House of Commons and the House of Lords have not adopted a mechanical or electronic means of voting. This was considered in 1998 but rejected. Divisions rarely take less than ten minutes and those where most Members are voting usually take about fifteen. Further information can be obtained from factsheet P9 at the UK Parliament site.
