Clause 115 - Application for grant or renewal of personal licence

Licensing Bill [Lords] – in a Public Bill Committee at 11:15 am on 13 May 2003.

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Amendment made: No. 26, in

clause 115, page 63, line 34, leave out from 'licence' to end of line 35 and insert—

'(a) must, if the applicant is ordinarily resident in the area of a licensing authority, be made to that authority, and

(b) may, in any other case, be made to any licensing authority'.—[Dr. Howells.]

Photo of Malcolm Moss Malcolm Moss Conservative, North East Cambridgeshire

I beg to move amendment No. 433, in

clause 115, page 64, line 2, after 'or', insert 'a copy thereof, or'.

Photo of Roger Gale Roger Gale Vice-Chair, Conservative Party

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment No. 437, in

clause 115, page 64, line 6, at beginning insert

'Save where the licence has been surrendered,'.

Amendment No. 389, in

clause 115, page 64, line 6, leave out 'two' and insert 'three'.

Amendment No. 390, in

clause 115, page 64, line 7, leave out 'three' and insert 'four'.

Amendment No. 438, in

clause 115, page 64, line 8, at end add—

'(6A) Where a licence has been surrendered under section 114 an application for renewal may be made at any time.'.

Amendment No. 439, in

clause 117, page 64, line 17, at beginning insert

'Save where the licence has been surrendered,'.

Amendment No. 391, in

clause 117, page 64, line 23, at end insert—

'(1A) If the application has still not been determined three months after the licence expired the licence holder will be entitled to compensation from the relevant licensing authority.'.

Amendment No. 440, in

clause 117, page 64, line 23, at end insert—

'(1A) Where an application for renewal is made in accordance with section 115 relating to a licence which has been surrendered, the licence shall have effect from the date of determination of the application.'.

Photo of Malcolm Moss Malcolm Moss Conservative, North East Cambridgeshire

A personal licence holder may be asked to produce their licence, for example, under clause 133, which states that an authorised officer or constable may require the licensee to produce the licence for examination. The licence holder could face a fine if they are unable to produce the licence, having previously sent it to the licensing authority. Amendment No. 433 would ensure that a copy of the relevant licence would suffice for the purposes of clause 133 and the relevant subsections of clause 115.

Amendments Nos. 389 and 390 relate to clause 115(6). Amendment No. 389 would alter the first time period referred to in the subsection from two to three months, and amendment No. 390 would alter the second period from three to four months. They are probing amendments to elicit from the Government their reasons for setting those time periods.

Amendment No. 391 would insert a new subsection (1A) in clause 117. When a licence is pending renewal, if the licensing authority has not determined an application after three months, the applicant should have recourse in law to compensation, because an application should not take that long to sort out and a person's livelihood could be jeopardised in the meantime. A licensing authority that is prejudicing an individual applicant's chances of earning a living should be liable to pay compensation.

Photo of Andrew Turner Andrew Turner Conservative, Isle of Wight

I particularly support amendment No. 391. If someone loses their livelihood because of

bureaucratic delay, they should have the opportunity to claim compensation. I do not suppose that compensation would be payable on many occasions, but it would be a useful incentive for local authorities to ensure that they complied within the period set out in the Bill.

My amendments are designed to elicit the Government's understanding of the legislation. They relate to the distinction between the process for the grant of an application and the process for the renewal of an application. If someone has surrendered a licence—they may be going away for a couple of years or may be out of the business because of maternity, or bringing up children—they should not necessarily have to go through the same process as someone who has never obtained a licence before.

I hope that the Minister can help me on that difference in the process and tell me whether the renewal process contains such benefits. If it does, why should those who surrender a licence not benefit?

Photo of Kim Howells Kim Howells Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Department for Culture, Media & Sport

The clause establishes an individual's right to apply for the grant or renewal of a personal licence. Where the application concerns renewal, it may be made only during a two-month period beginning three months before the date on which the licence would normally expire. That means that the latest date on which a person may apply for renewal is one month before the licence would otherwise expire.

Amendment No. 433 would permit a copy of the licence to be provided rather than the original. I presume that the hon. Member for North-East Cambridgeshire has in mind clause 124, which permits the licensing authority to issue a replacement copy following the theft, loss or destruction of a licence. Amendment No. 433 therefore makes complete sense, but it is unnecessary because clause 124(5) states:

''This Act applies in relation to a copy issued under this section as it applies in relation to an original licence.''

That means that a copy issued under clause 124 may be submitted for renewal as if it were the original licence. With that reassurance, I hope that the amendment can be withdrawn.

Amendments Nos. 389 and 390 would allow applications to be made during a three-month period beginning four months before the date on which the licence would normally expire. The latest date on which a person could apply for renewal is one month before the licence would expire, so there would be no change there. However, it would mean that the applicants could apply one month earlier than the Bill currently permits. Although that might make life easier for the applicants, it would increase the possibility that a person may apply for a renewal and have their application determined before being prosecuted and convicted for an offence.

The Bill has built-in safeguards where convictions come to light only after a grant or a renewal, but the process is time-consuming, complex and best avoided if possible. It therefore makes sense to have a fairly tight time frame in which applications can be made. The question is, yet again, one of balance.

It being twenty-five minutes past Eleven o'clock, The Chairman adjourned the Committee without Question put, pursuant to the Standing Order.

Adjourned till this day at half-past Two o'clock.