TABLE
Sitting Proceedings Time for conclusion of proceedings
26th June (a.m.), (p.m.) 1st July (a.m.), (p.m.) Clauses 1 to 4, Schedule 1; Clauses 5 to 6, Schedule 2; Clauses 7 to 35; Clauses 37 to 45, Schedule 4; Clauses 46 to 65, Schedule 5; Clauses 66 to 85. 5.00 p.m. on 1st July
8th July (a.m.), (p.m.) Clauses 86 to 94; Clause 97, Schedule 6; clauses 98 to 104; Clause 107; Schedules 7 and 8; Clauses 108 to 110. 5.00 p.m.
10th July (a.m.), (p.m.) Clause 36, Schedule 3; Clauses 95, 96, 105 and 106; new Clauses, new Schedules and any remaining proceedings on the Bill. 5.00 p.m.

Part of Courts Bill [Lords] – in a Public Bill Committee at 10:30 am on 26 June 2003.

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Photo of David Heath David Heath Shadow Spokesperson (Home Affairs) 10:30, 26 June 2003

We have had a useful and illuminating debate on this group of amendments, although I have my doubts about whether the Minister's reply was entirely strategic. We may expand a little further on that subject later.

With amendment No. 109, the difficulty is that it is in the Department's interests to ensure that what it does is road-tested against the experiences of court users throughout the country. The Minister says that that happens all the time, and he does not want to restrict it by tying it to the production of an annual report. So be it. That is fine and would satisfy the requirements of my amendment. However, the amendment would also ensure that when the annual report is published we would have an opportunity to test the performance of the Department against the principles to which it claims to aspire. That is important. The Minister says that the courts boards

will fulfil that function, but we have yet to debate how those will operate and the extent of their functions under the Bill.

I remind the Minister that courts boards will be established on the basis of the current magistrates courts committee areas, which are coterminous with those of police authorities. The latter range from areas recognisable as counties to what is recognisable, in most terms, as a region. The police authority for London covers the whole of the Metropolitan police area, which is huge. The Greater Manchester police authority covers an enormous area.

Even in my locale, the Avon and Somerset police authority extends over many lay bench areas. It would be hard to find two individuals who represent the lay magistrates and are considered to have an understanding of the entire area. The Minister will not be surprised to learn that the requirements, character and traditions of inner-city Bristol are slightly different from those of Exmoor. It is an enormous responsibility for courts boards to be asked to articulate the views of many vastly different communities.

To find out how effective the Department has been in doing what it is intended to do, something much closer to the ground is needed—something that relates to the people who use particular courts.

That brings me to the major amendment, No. 1. Most hon. Members have understood that there is a balance to be struck between efficiency, effectiveness and accessibility in terms of locality and so on. Those of us with experience of local government know that people have to wrestle with such matters constantly in many spheres. For example, anyone who has run an education authority in a rural shire knows that one has to work out whether it is better to maintain and improve a small, rural, Victorian school or to find an alternative—a new, purpose-built school that covers several villages and can provide for a wider population. Such a balance has to be struck and it is right for this Department to do so too.

That is why I am disappointed by what the Minister said. Including accessibility in the general duty ensures that that test must be applied to every decision. The debate has concentrated on court closures, but it could equally have concentrated on the other aspects of the Department's work. The hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston mentioned listings, which are crucial, and the hon. Member for Witney mentioned batch processing, which is also crucial. If magistrates courts have to churn through a vast number of similar cases, they will inevitably be held further away than is appropriate to the needs of a dispersed population because of the listings process, not because of where the courthouse happens to be. That is the key matter, which we want the Minister to consider.