Part of Co-operatives and CommunityBenefit Societies Bill – in a Public Bill Committee at 2:30 pm on 18 March 2003.
I, too, welcome you to the Chair, Mr. Stevenson. This is my first opportunity to serve under your chairmanship, which I expect will be both a great pleasure and a relatively brief one.
Clause 1 gives me the opportunity to make a few introductory remarks, which I hope will be in order, and to echo the comments of the hon. Member for South Derbyshire (Mr. Todd). I congratulate him, as I did on Second Reading, on securing his advantageous position in the private Member's Bill ballot—there can be no more advantageous position than to come top. I also congratulate him on selecting this topic for his intended legislation.
During a constructive and consensual debate in the House on 31 January, we identified the fact that the principles and intent behind the hon. Gentleman's aspiration to see legislation introduced not only survive but attract broad interest and support from the Government and Her Majesty's official Opposition. We are happy to lend our support to the Bill, subject to the proper scrutiny that this House affords to all legislation.
I am also conscious that there are other important events in the House today, so we want to dispatch the Bill as efficiently as we can. It is appropriate for me to draw attention to my entry in the Register of Members' Interests, as I did on Second Reading. I am a parliamentary adviser to the Institute of Chartered Secretaries and Administrators, of which I am a fellow, having been a company secretary of a FTSE 100 company before I entered the House.
One overall aspect applies to new clause 1 and the other proposed new clauses. Although I know that it is not a requirement for a private Member's Bill, it would have been helpful, and may yet still be possible if the Government are prepared to consider it, if a regulatory impact assessment had been issued. The nature of the new clauses suggests that one is necessary, and I would certainly welcome such an assessment, which is now the norm and expectation for Government Bills. I understand that the Government examined the Bill as first presented and that they have had a hand in drafting the new clauses, so it is incumbent on them to be consistent with their broad approach and issue a regulatory impact assessment.
That is particularly important, given the lack of explanatory notes, which is understandable, on the difference between the initial Bill and the current proposals. Some of the remarks made by Members on Second Reading have been sensibly considered in the drafting of the new clauses, but without explanatory notes, a regulatory impact assessment would be helpful. There is a degree to which that imposes a regulation, or at least an effort and burden, on those who so ably support the Minister, but I hope that an assessment will be forthcoming.
We do not take issue with the principle of a voluntary asset lock. In fact, as was said on Second
Reading, we fully support and understand the principle. However, it is important to consider that, as the hon. Member for South Derbyshire has just noted, the new clause throws much of the burden of the Bill on to the consultation process. There is no longer a clear expectation with a somewhat simpler approach to the process.
I understand the complications. We are dealing with assets that are funded, often by past generations, and there is an inherent trust in the process that the assets exist for the co-operative and community benefit societies that they are owned by or applied to. The consultative process, through new clause 1 and others, makes it incumbent on us to consider whether putting the burden on to secondary legislation is wholly appropriate. That will have a regulatory impact in itself, which must be borne in mind, and it may increase uncertainty rather than certainty. That is particularly important when dealing with assets.
I noted with interest that it was expected that the regulatory requirement for the monitoring and assessments of the transactions would fall primarily to the Financial Services Authority, although the hon. Member for South Derbyshire made it clear that was not necessarily the case. The current Government's approach is that it is better to have one overarching financial services regulatory authority rather than a number of them because, one would hope, that results in greater consistency, fairness and understanding. There is also the opportunity to give the authority an educational role, particularly on some of the more esoteric entities that exist—not least co-operatives and community benefit societies. However, we all recognise that the FSA has taken time to establish itself, and it is difficult to imagine that there would be the requisite expertise across a number of bodies. The remit of the Financial Services Authority, as granted to it under the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 is due for review near the end of the year—the precise date would be helpful if the Minister were willing to give it. Therefore, this is a good opportunity to consider the possibility of extending the FSA's remit, along with a number of other issues.
I am anxious to hear from the Minister because we are considering new clauses and this is her first opportunity to explain a number of the phrases in them. Much will depend upon the understanding that lies behind the secondary legislation that could be required on a number of occasions, and on its effectiveness and frequency.
In subsection (3) of new clause 1, the defined term is ''dedicated assets''. It is intensely important for all concerned to understand clearly what is meant here by that term. Leading up to that definition, we see regulations relating to, in subsection (1)(a),
''assets of the society of a prescribed kind'',
that cannot be used except, in subsection (2)(b),
''where the circumstances are such as may be prescribed''.
So the whole thing is being pushed into the future, for future debate. As the dedicated assets will be the subject of the potential transactions and provisions of the Bill, it would be helpful to have those delineated in a more concrete way.
More important, we must consider the Government's view on whether a precedent is being set with regard to the asset lock, and whether there is not a hidden agenda but a potential for these provisions to be prayed in aid in relation to other entities and assets that are not necessarily encompassed, owned or operated by co-operatives and community benefit societies. A number of the issues that are tackled in the new clause prejudge what the Government will have to consider in making their proposals resulting from the consultation—now closed—that followed the performance and innovation unit's worthy and well-received charity law reform report. Again, it would help the Committee to know where the Government believe that the proposals conform with the expected results of the consultation and with their views as to the legislation that is likely to flow from the charity law reform report.
Three pieces of legislation are likely to emanate from that report. One is charity law reform, another—