State Pension Credit Bill [Lords] – in a Public Bill Committee at 6:45 pm on 16 April 2002.
Tim Boswell
Shadow Spokesperson (Business, Innovation and Skills), Shadow Spokesperson (Work and Pensions)
6:45,
16 April 2002
I beg to move Amendment No. 14, in page 2, line 24, leave out subsection (6).
Peter Atkinson
Conservative, Hexham
With this it will be convenient to discuss Amendment No. 3, in page 2, line 26, at end insert—
'(6A) Such regulations may not apply to hospital in-patients.'.
Tim Boswell
Shadow Spokesperson (Business, Innovation and Skills), Shadow Spokesperson (Work and Pensions)
I sense that we have had a useful afternoon, but that we may now want to make more progress. We shall see how far we get in the time left.
When I examined Clause 2, I was concerned that it was unamended. A maxim of an Opposition spokesperson in Committee—certainly one that I have followed in the past—is that if a clause is unamended, find something to ask about it and table an Amendment to probe it.
I hope that my amendment goes further, and addresses a point of substance. The Under-Secretary almost revealed in the exchanges on the previous clause that the minimum income guarantee, which transmutes into guarantee credit, is substantially the same concept as the income support that it replaced. The level at which assistance is given, and the disincentives, if any, that exist to save are important matters, but we certainly do not want to rehearse them now.
I may wish later to ask the Minister some general questions about the operation of the guarantee credit, which arise more properly under clause stand part. Rather than trying to ask them now, I shall restrict myself to our amendment and that of the hon. Member for Northavon.
Amendment No. 14 has two purposes. The first is to smoke out from the explanatory notes whether prescribed amounts should be confined to hospital downrating. It would be useful to have the Under-Secretary's assurance that it is. If she is contemplating introducing prescribed amounts in other areas, where an arbitrary level would be substituted for the standard minimum guarantee, it will be useful to know that.
The second purpose of our amendment, which is the one of substance given that hospital downrating has been trailed, is to ask the Under-Secretary to comment on the thinking behind what has been done. The Committee heaved a collective sigh of relief, which I hope included the Ministers, when they were led, encouraged or dragooned by a combination of forces in Another place to relax the hospital downrating rules from six to 13 weeks. That substantial hole has been kicked into the concept of the downrating rules and Ministers should say a little more about what is left and why. If a substantial chunk is removed—half the cost or value of the scheme by any analysis—we must ask what is left and whether it is appropriate.
I fully understand, and Ministers will know better than anyone else in the Committee, that there is a revenue implication. They cannot go around making concessions according to the state of the sun or the moon, but must consider their overall budgets. I shall not press them hard on the principle, but it would be useful to know a little more about their thinking on that.
The relict scheme, which reflects the wish from the start of the national insurance scheme in 1948 not to allow for double provision, is an anomaly. I am sure that that came into debates in another place. I do not want to suggest that an untypical case is typical, but it would be possible for a pensioner in receipt of the guarantee credit suddenly to receive a windfall or to return to work unexpectedly with a large increase in their income. They would retain their entitlement to the guarantee or any savings credit that may arise, and good luck to them. I am not arguing about that. However, I understand that, if people are confined in hospital and receiving support from the public purse for their board and lodging perhaps, that is the only exceptional circumstance in which the guarantee credit would be written down with substitution of a prescribed amount. Those people would be in an unusual and unique position. The Ministers should explain that—that is the purpose of my amendment—and justify whether we have now reached an equitable and acceptable position.
It is easy to say—perhaps it should be said from the Opposition Benches—that people confined in hospital have problems. They have health problems and the Ministers acknowledged in making their concessions the continuing obligation to expenditure outwith hospital. It is not simply a matter of keeping people
alive by providing food and shelter. A 13-week period is more acceptable than a six-week period, but it would help if the Ministers explained how they reached that position and whether that is the only prescribed exception that they are minded to make.
Debate adjourned.—[Angela Smith.]
Adjourned accordingly at five minutes to Seven o'clock till Thursday 18 April at half-past Nine o'clock.
A parliamentary bill is divided into sections called clauses.
Printed in the margin next to each clause is a brief explanatory `side-note' giving details of what the effect of the clause will be.
During the committee stage of a bill, MPs examine these clauses in detail and may introduce new clauses of their own or table amendments to the existing clauses.
When a bill becomes an Act of Parliament, clauses become known as sections.
As a bill passes through Parliament, MPs and peers may suggest amendments - or changes - which they believe will improve the quality of the legislation.
Many hundreds of amendments are proposed by members to major bills as they pass through committee stage, report stage and third reading in both Houses of Parliament.
In the end only a handful of amendments will be incorporated into any bill.
The Speaker - or the chairman in the case of standing committees - has the power to select which amendments should be debated.
During a debate members of the House of Commons traditionally refer to the House of Lords as 'another place' or 'the other place'.
Peers return the gesture when they speak of the Commons in the same way.
This arcane form of address is something the Labour Government has been reviewing as part of its programme to modernise the Houses of Parliament.
A parliamentary bill is divided into sections called clauses.
Printed in the margin next to each clause is a brief explanatory `side-note' giving details of what the effect of the clause will be.
During the committee stage of a bill, MPs examine these clauses in detail and may introduce new clauses of their own or table amendments to the existing clauses.
When a bill becomes an Act of Parliament, clauses become known as sections.
Ministers make up the Government and almost all are members of the House of Lords or the House of Commons. There are three main types of Minister. Departmental Ministers are in charge of Government Departments. The Government is divided into different Departments which have responsibilities for different areas. For example the Treasury is in charge of Government spending. Departmental Ministers in the Cabinet are generally called 'Secretary of State' but some have special titles such as Chancellor of the Exchequer. Ministers of State and Junior Ministers assist the ministers in charge of the department. They normally have responsibility for a particular area within the department and are sometimes given a title that reflects this - for example Minister of Transport.
The Opposition are the political parties in the House of Commons other than the largest or Government party. They are called the Opposition because they sit on the benches opposite the Government in the House of Commons Chamber. The largest of the Opposition parties is known as Her Majesty's Opposition. The role of the Official Opposition is to question and scrutinise the work of Government. The Opposition often votes against the Government. In a sense the Official Opposition is the "Government in waiting".
