Proceeds of Crime Bill – in a Public Bill Committee at 3:15 pm on 6 December 2001.
Mr John McWilliam
Labour, Blaydon
With this we may take Government amendments Nos. 218 to 225 and Clause stand part.
Mr George Foulkes
Minister of State, Scottish Office, Minister of State (Scotland Office)
Amendments Nos. 217 and 218 prevent funds that are under restraint from being released to pay legal expenses to defend the criminal charges in respect of which the restraint order is made or legal expenses incurred in the confiscation proceedings. Legal aid will be available in the normal way. The amendments bring Clause 122 into line with clause 46 in part 2, on which we had an extensive discussion.
Amendment No. 219 is primarily a drafting amendment, and amendments Nos. 220 to 225 are mainly drafting amendments designed to tidy up subsection (7).
Dominic Grieve
Shadow Minister (Home Affairs)
I am grateful to the Minister for his explanation. This is another area where the Bill's Scottish and English components differed. On part 2, we discussed extending legal aid and whether someone should be allowed to draw down for legal aid the sums under restraint. That was not allowed and the Minister will remember that I argued that it should be; in the Scottish system, precisely what I argued for was allowed but is now being removed. I think that I have understood correctly that that is what he is saying. The regime was quite different, yet when the Bill was presented it was suggested that the Scottish system was perfectly viable, or the Government would not have gone along with it.
Mr Nick Hawkins
Conservative, Surrey Heath
I know that we are not, at the moment, blessed with the presence of the hon. Member for Glasgow, Pollok—[Hon. Members: ''Oh yes we are.''] He has arrived on cue. You will recall, Mr. McWilliam, if you were in the Chair—and if you were not, I am sure that you will have read about it with interest in Hansard—that the hon. Gentleman was at pains to point out that no money should be spent on lawyers. He is no doubt pleased that the Minister has taken out the provisions that relate to reasonable living expenses and legal aid.
My hon. Friend the Member for Beaconsfield is right to point out that a traditional provision under Scots law is being removed. Have Members of the Scottish Parliament fully considered that provisions for reasonable living expenses and legal aid, which have existed in Scots law for many years, are being taken away? Has the Scottish Parliament been told that an English Minister—albeit one with a Scottish Constituency—is planning to do that?
Mr John McWilliam
Labour, Blaydon
Order. I hope that the hon. Gentleman is not suggesting that the clauses under discussion are ultra vires to Parliament. I assure him that they are not.
Mr George Foulkes
Minister of State, Scottish Office, Minister of State (Scotland Office)
Some 72 Members of Parliament represent Scotland. Some of them are members of the Committee. That is deliberate: it is no accident that there are so many Scottish Labour Members on the Committee. Following the General Election, there is one Scottish Tory Member, but the Opposition have not put him on the Committee. Our discussions might have been improved if they had.
The Amendment reflects the different legal aid systems in operation north and south of the border. The Bill takes account of that. Legal aid is available for restraint proceedings in Scotland. I hope that the hon. Member for Beaconsfield, at least, will understand the import of that.
Amendment agreed to.
Amendments made: No. 218, in page 75, line 35, at end insert—
'(4A) These offences fall within this subsection—
(a) the offence mentioned in section 121(2) or (3), if the first or second condition (as the case may be) is satisfied;
(b) the offence (or any of the offences) concerned, if the third, fourth or fifth condition is satisfied.'.
No. 219, in page 75, line 36, leave out subsections (5) and (6).
No. 220, in page 76, line 1, leave out from 'affect' to 'property' in line 2.
No. 221, in page 76, line 2, after 'under', insert
'—
(a) section 9 of'.
No. 222, in page 76, line 3, after '(c.32),', insert '(b)'.
No. 223, in page 76, line 3, after '(c.33),', insert '(c) Article 14 of'.
No. 224, in page 76, line 5, after '(N.I.17)', insert
'(d) section 27 of the Drug Trafficking Act 1994 (c.37)'.
No. 225, in page 76, line 5, after 'or', insert '(e) Article 32 of'.—[Mr. Foulkes.]
Clause 122, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.
A parliamentary bill is divided into sections called clauses.
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During the committee stage of a bill, MPs examine these clauses in detail and may introduce new clauses of their own or table amendments to the existing clauses.
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As a bill passes through Parliament, MPs and peers may suggest amendments - or changes - which they believe will improve the quality of the legislation.
Many hundreds of amendments are proposed by members to major bills as they pass through committee stage, report stage and third reading in both Houses of Parliament.
In the end only a handful of amendments will be incorporated into any bill.
The Speaker - or the chairman in the case of standing committees - has the power to select which amendments should be debated.
A parliamentary bill is divided into sections called clauses.
Printed in the margin next to each clause is a brief explanatory `side-note' giving details of what the effect of the clause will be.
During the committee stage of a bill, MPs examine these clauses in detail and may introduce new clauses of their own or table amendments to the existing clauses.
When a bill becomes an Act of Parliament, clauses become known as sections.
As a bill passes through Parliament, MPs and peers may suggest amendments - or changes - which they believe will improve the quality of the legislation.
Many hundreds of amendments are proposed by members to major bills as they pass through committee stage, report stage and third reading in both Houses of Parliament.
In the end only a handful of amendments will be incorporated into any bill.
The Speaker - or the chairman in the case of standing committees - has the power to select which amendments should be debated.
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