Clause 8 - Licences to engage in licensable conduct

Part of Private Security Industry Bill [Lords] – in a Public Bill Committee at 2:30 pm on 26 April 2001.

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Photo of Charles Clarke Charles Clarke Minister of State, Home Office 2:30, 26 April 2001

This is an important amendment, and I am glad that my right hon. Friend tabled it. We debated the matter on Second Reading, but important issues have been raised that should be dealt with. In answer to the hon. Member for Buckingham (Mr. Bercow), we estimate the cost of the licence to be approximately £35 to £40, usually for a three-year licence. That is the scale of fee that we think is right, although it is a ball-park figure rather than an absolute commitment. We do not believe it to be an exorbitant fee. We believe it to be reasonable, and we do not believe that it will deter those already employed in the industry from obtaining a licence, nor those wishing to gain employment in the industry. I agree with the thrust of what my right hon. Friend said about the drive that is required to raise the working standards of the industry, including the levels of pay and training. That is a key part of the process. The measures that he mentioned such as the minimum wage—I also mention the working families tax credit—are designed to attack the core issue, which is relative low pay and its implications, rather than the various costs that are borne by various people.

In principle, it is right that if the primary responsibility is on the individual to obtain a personal licence, it is appropriate for employers to pay licence fees for their employees. However, I strongly agree with my right hon. Friend that it is more than a hope—it is an expectation—of the Government that reputable companies will wish to pay the fees for their employees. He was correct to say that a number of the serious companies involved believe that that is their obligation. As he said, however, they are worried that the playing field would not be level, because other employers would not be under the same legal obligation to pay the fees. Employers believe that it is right that they should be paying the fees, providing quality training and addressing other issues in respect of raising standards in the industry. We expect that reputable companies will wish to pay the fees for their employees, but we do not believe—and this is where I part company with my right hon. Friend—that we should impose on all employers the duty to pay.

Employers have, in general, welcomed the Bill, but we are trying to steer a course between good regulation and over-regulation. To force employers to pay a fee that targets employees who are often highly mobile—a point made by the hon. Member for Buckingham—would not necessarily be the right way forward. I regret that I cannot ask the Committee to support the amendment. I urge my right hon. Friend to withdraw it.

I can, however, take the second step that my right hon. Friend suggested, which is to place on record as strongly as I can the expectation of the Government that good and reputable employers will pay the fees for their employees, provide appropriate training, and commit themselves to the business standards that the Bill aims to achieve. I am sorry that I cannot go all the way with him, although his arguments have a great deal of force. To place such a requirement on all employers would be going beyond the balanced approach that we wish to take.