Welcome, Minister.

Apologies.

Not at all. I welcome the Finance Minister. Congratulations, John, and thank you for gracing us with your presence.

I beg to move

That this Assembly recognises the transformative potential of cross-border cooperation on the island of Ireland; expresses regret that, due to political dysfunction, the North/South Ministerial Council (NSMC) has not lived up to its potential in supporting cross-border cooperation; notes the range of commitments in the Irish Government’s Programme for Government (PFG) on the Shared Island initiative, which compares unfavourably with the lack of ambition in the Executive’s Programme for Government; further notes the findings of the recent economic modelling work on an all-island economy undertaken by the Economic and Social Research Institute (ESRI); and calls on the Minister of Finance to bring forward proposals for shared budgeting between the Northern Ireland Executive and the Irish Government, including, but not limited to, cross-border healthcare, all-island infrastructure and economic development.

The Business Committee has agreed to allow up to one hour for the debate. The proposer of the motion will have five minutes to propose and five minutes to make a winding-up speech. All other Members who wish to speak will have three minutes. Patsy, please open the debate on the motion.

Go raibh maith agat, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle. Agus mé ag moladh an rúin, ba mhaith liom a dheimhniú don Tionól go gcreidim go fíor, agus go daingean in aontacht phobail na tíre go síochánta, le cóimheas agus le comhréiteach ar mhaithe linn uile.

[Translation: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. In proposing the motion, I affirm to the Assembly my profound and deep belief in the unity of the people of this country, that unity being built on peace, accommodation and harmonisation and to the benefit of every one of us.]

I believe in that passionately and have worked through many years to facilitate and bring about that aim.

We have outlined in the motion our many issues and proposals on positive cross-border cooperation and the benefits that can accrue from it. In doing so, I have to say that the Executive have shown a lack of ambition in their Programme for Government. Indeed, that contrasts very deeply with the detailed commitments that are in the Irish Government's Programme for Government on the Shared Island initiative and others. I will return to that in a moment or two. It is very important that we make the case for such cooperation, and it makes sense for economic integration. Many companies on this island, particularly in the agri-food and agriculture sectors and others, are already doing that. That emphasises the benefits of cross-border cooperation and shared economic planning. It is not just about that, because we could be working on many other issues together; however, that is not being done properly, whether it be health, the environment, education or the multitude of other key policy issues that both Governments could facilitate and work on on this island. There has been very little practical action from Sinn Féin on cross-border cooperation, despite its power to secure mechanisms, such as shared budgeting, and there has not really been any substantial progress on that.

We returned to the North/South Ministerial Council, which really has failed to live up to its full potential due to ongoing political instability, particularly the repeated suspension of the institutions here in the North. The Irish Government's Programme for Government commits to a comprehensive shared island programme, including funding for cross-border infrastructure, economic planning and healthcare integration. In contrast, the Northern Ireland Executive have yet to produce a final Programme for Government and have not prioritised cross-border cooperation.

A number of key asks in the SDLP manifesto were around the expansion of the Shared Island unit. We already have a commitment from the Irish Government for an additional €1 billion on that front. In their Programme for Government, there is a commitment to operate on a cross-border basis — North/South and east-west — in the area of renewable energy. They also refer to deepening:

"collaboration between the healthcare systems on the island".

Other issues include examining the establishment of an all-island skills task force, with a focus on planning, construction and infrastructure development; developing the vision set out in the all-island rail review; developing an all-island plan to improve water basin management, water quality and nature restoration; and creating an all-island nature and climate fund. All those issues were priorities in the SDLP manifesto, and they have been included in the Irish Government's visionary Programme for Government, which deals with North/South issues.

Economic modelling by ESRI confirms that greater economic integration would benefit both jurisdictions. Northern Ireland lags behind the Republic on key economic indicators. Increased collaboration could drive economic growth and investment. All the issues that I have highlighted are to our mutual benefit. Nobody can refuse them. Nobody can say, "No, we can't go with that".

Despite Sinn Féin's rhetoric on a united Ireland, there has been a failure to progress meaningful mechanisms such as shared budgeting, which could facilitate cross-border infrastructure projects and service delivery. From our point of view, our motion highlights the failure of the Northern Ireland Executive to match the ambition of the Irish Government's Shared Island commitments. It calls for concrete actions in the form of shared budgeting —

Patsy, will you draw your remarks to a close, please?

— to ensure practical cross-border cooperation in key areas such as healthcare, infrastructure and economic development. No one, but no one, can dispute that.

The effective operation of the North/South Ministerial Council is central to our peace settlement. Sinn Féin has consistently argued for the strengthening of the NSMC and expanded areas of all-Ireland cooperation. In the past, unionist boycotts and other attempts to disrupt effective all-island cooperation have, indeed, negatively impacted on the resilience of the NSMC. The reality is that no institutional strand of the Good Friday Agreement can be unpicked or set to the side without having negative consequences for the entire agreement framework.

All-Ireland cooperation is an essential condition for good government in the North and maintaining stable institutions. Shared approaches across the island on issues such as health, education, agriculture, infrastructure, climate and tourism all make sense. It is the way forward. However, Brexit, demographics, political realignments and the outworking of our peace process have all reshaped the political landscape, so constitutional change is on the political horizon. That is a powerful incentive to develop increased areas of all-island cooperation.

The Irish Government's new Programme for Government points to how increased cooperation can continue to be advanced. However, the new PFG does not address the need to systematically plan and prepare for Irish unity. The PFG, in fact, represents a failed opportunity to integrate current and future cooperation in key policy areas with a strategy for reunification as a political and policy objective. There is no explicit political recognition that a unity referendum under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement is, in fact, inevitable.

The PFG could and should have embraced a step change by designing an approach to support constitutional transition, and that should extend to establishing a citizens' assembly on unity, publishing a Green Paper on constitutional change and, indeed, establishing a Department with a Minister who is dedicated to the reunification process. The Irish Government should also begin a conversation with the British Government on developing an intergovernmental road map to enable a unity referendum within this decade and to prepare for a smooth path to Irish unity.

Members, change is happening. Increased cross-border cooperation carries huge transformative potential, but it is time for the Irish Government to frame that dynamic within the political objective of planning for Irish unity.

I congratulate the Minister on his new role as Finance Minister.

The DUP supports practical, sensible and targeted cooperation between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. People on both sides of the border share close economic and social ties, and we are pleased that those ties have improved significantly over the past 25 years. We do not feel that our British and unionist identity is under any threat from the many positive examples of beneficial and life-saving cross-border health projects, including the all-island congenital heart disease network and the North West Cancer Centre. Indeed, the DUP wants that vital work to continue.

I represent the border constituency of South Down and see at first hand the benefits of assets such as the Carlingford ferry enhancing the economy on both sides of the border. However, the arrangements underpinning cross-border cooperation must have due regard for and respect the constitutional place and position of Northern Ireland. Crucially, they should also be accountable to the Executive and the Assembly. We make no apologies for the fact that the North/South Ministerial Council has not lived up to its potential, as the SDLP sees it. Prior to St Andrews and the safeguards that we secured at that time, there was scope for an expansive approach that undermined Northern Ireland's place within the United Kingdom and was corrosive to local community relations.

It is unsurprising that the motion from the leader of the Opposition criticises the Executive's lack of ambition when it comes to cross-border cooperation, but he needs to accept that the political and economic conditions in this place are far removed from current events in Dublin. Mr O'Toole suggests that the Executive ought to replicate the additional €1 billion being invested in Shared Island initiatives by the new Irish Cabinet. Where does he propose we draw that funding from? What public services, which specific schools, hospitals and roads, does he suggest that that money be taken from? As Chair of the Finance Committee, he is acutely aware of our financial situation.

Does the leader of the Opposition also accept that, for unionist Ministers in the Executive, their ambition with respect to North/South cooperation will naturally be tempered by a desire to promote and strengthen links with their counterparts in Great Britain? Surely that goes without saying for unionist Ministers in the Executive and all unionists in the Assembly.

There are synergies in the two documents as we look at them. For example, the all-island rail review is listed as a priority in the Programmes for Government in Dublin and Stormont. We welcome that. The DUP believes that there is no contradiction between its pro-Union stance and support for growth-orientated and mutually beneficial expansion of transport links between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic. As I said at the start, the DUP supports practical, sensible and —

Can you draw your remarks to a close, please?

— targeted cooperation between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

I also wish the Minister well in his new role.

I have been at, I think, every Shared Island event and meeting that has happened in the South. Part of it comes from what reconciliation is and what it looks like in 2025. We are 27 years on from the Good Friday Agreement, so what does reconciliation look like in the next five, 10 or 15 years? For Alliance, reconciliation is a core value of our party. We work for a shared future. We sit outside the two ideologies of constitution — unionism and nationalism — but we give an inclusive alternative base for sharing and reconciliation. We do not form policy based on or filtered through the two uniteds — whether you want a United Kingdom or a united Ireland. We simply base our policy on evidence and research and the simple value of delivering better for everyone.

I was asked last week, or the week before last, to give the top three issues in Northern Ireland. My answer was health, education and the economy, and you can flip them around depending on the day, but all three require a shared island approach if we are to deliver solutions for people and to deliver better. Health should be fundamentally based on getting the best possible care: an all-island solution to deliver better, reduce waiting lists and provide better care as quickly as possible, with easy access for treatment.

Organising healthcare throughout the island would yield massive benefits. Children's cancer services are an example of that. A constituent of mine has a young girl who had to travel to Manchester for treatment. At her lowest and most vulnerable point, she had to go on a commercial flight, with all the potential to pick up bugs and infections, rather than there being a solution on the island that she could have availed herself of.

In education, let us look at giving our young people opportunities to study throughout the island, as well as to go across to England, Scotland and Wales. We need to remove the barriers to that. One of my kids went to university in England, and I have one in Dublin. In 1998, 10% of Trinity College students were Northern students, but, today, that figure is less than 1%.

Will the Member give way?

Yes, go ahead.

Why would we want to deny our young people opportunities to expand their knowledge base that may not be available in Northern Ireland? Does he agree that the best way to do that is through partnership?

The Member has an extra minute.

Thank you.

Yes, absolutely. I totally agree. Recently, the Economy Committee looked at creating a north-west hub on the Magee campus. That is an example of collaboration. We could work with the Letterkenny campus to deliver a university there for young people on both sides of the border and enable them to access the highest level of education.

As regards our economy, we need to sell this island as one. Just as we do with tourism, we need to use relationships North and South to allow our businesses to scale, grow and export. Invest NI should work in collaboration with IDA Ireland, not try to compete with it. We are nowhere close to the economic figures of the South, and we are only 78% of the average UK gross value added (GVA). We need to focus on an all-island economy that exports to GB and has dual-market access and exports to the EU and world markets. We do not have manufacturing or dual-market access strategies, however. A lot of the manufacturing in the South is outside Dublin, so this would all feed into creating regional balance.

I started with reconciliation and I will end on it: what will reconciliation look like moving forward?

The SDLP tabled the motion as an Opposition debate, but it is similar to the earlier motions in that, from my perspective and that of my party, it lacks a little detail in what it sets out. It is right to point to the North/South Ministerial Council and some of its failings. It has not met as it should have done, but, when it does, it is the correct vehicle for better cooperation on the island.

I am not sure what David Honeyford meant when he described the divisions that still exist. Are you talking about divisions North/South or in the Chamber? Having met many Southern counterparts from the Government that went out and the Government that is now in, I am not aware that there is that much of a rub between us; there is more of a rub in this House.

When Declan Kearney from Sinn Féin spoke — I am not criticising Declan for it, because his republican credentials are there for everybody to see every time he speaks — we heard how he sees this very much as another opportunity to advance the united Ireland project. As a unionist with huge ambitions for Northern Ireland and these islands, I think that that might be at the core of the drive. We have achieved much in the 27 years since the Good Friday Agreement, but could we do better?

The North/South Ministerial Council met over the border just before Christmas. We discussed issues including perinatal mental health and childcare. Our compatriots in the South share similar frustrations to those that we experience. I will be honest and say that it was a good forum, where we could share experiences. I have no issue with that. However, we have serious issues at hand in this Government. One of the things that concern me about Sinn Féin — I do not mean to focus on you guys — is that you sit in opposition in the South and in government in the North. When you criticise what is happening in the South, it is hard to see why it would be of any benefit to collaborate on some issues.

Now, there are areas in which collaboration is absolutely good, right and proper and has been shown to have value: tourism, for instance. I used to work in the Fire and Rescue Service, where there was cross-border cooperation and memorandums of understanding to allow services with very different configurations to operate well together. Certainly, more can be done. We know that the Minister of Health made a bid to the Executive for reintroduction of the cross-border reimbursement scheme, but, unfortunately, that did not get Executive support. That could make a fundamental difference to people's lives by driving down waiting lists.

This is a good enough topic for the SDLP to bring for debate. There is a long way to travel before it is exploited and expanded any further. I hope that some of the things that I said have registered with certain ears.

First, I will state a fact and a truth, which is that we share this island. We absolutely share this island. The two states share this island. Many peoples share this island, and so it should be. That is the way that it is meant to be. That is the way that you would want to be treated by your neighbour in your development, and that is how you would want to treat your neighbour in your development. It is the same thing with states. We live on such a small island that, surely, it should not be that hard, but, of course, knowing our history, I can say that it has been hard. That is a real shame.

Back in the 1920s, we had an opportunity to share the island, and strides were made. However, that was undermined on many occasions. Collins, when he faced down the anti-treaty republicans, received support from, of all people, Winston Churchill and Britain, and he was armed. What did he do with those arms? He used the surplus to arm Frank Aiken to terrorise Northern Ireland. He undermined the state of Northern Ireland at every opportunity. There was the border campaign of the 1950s and the Provo campaign euphemistically called "the Troubles", which caused great despair and harm to all peoples, including the Catholic population of Northern Ireland. When you learn from our history, you can understand why we are not in the healthy place that we should be.

The mood and trend of the motion can be equally attributed to sharing these islands. The Opposition are not necessarily opposing or scrutinising the work of the Executive. Basically, they are pushing their constitutional position and philosophy into the amendment, which is OK. The Opposition have the right to put down motions as they see fit, but I would love to see them using more of their energy to convince the Westminster Government to understand this place better — all its arts and parts and all its people — so that, when we talk about sharing, we talk about sharing understanding throughout these islands. Believe it or not, even the British Isles are a small place, let alone the island of Ireland, so more work must be done in that regard. We would get a far better bang for our buck if we could convince Westminster to understand this place and all its diverse parts much better.

The motion highlights the stark reality that, despite the immense opportunities in effective cross-border cooperation, the North/South Ministerial Council has not lived up to its potential. The dividends of cooperation and working together are being squandered by political dysfunction. It is vital that we recognise and realise the immense opportunities that lie in building closer ties between the two parts of our island, opportunities that could reshape our economy, our healthcare system and our infrastructure for generations to come.

The Irish Government's programme for government, particularly its focus on Shared Island initiatives, shows a forward-thinking and ambitious approach. It acknowledges the importance of deepening cooperation across the island and fostering collaborative working in practical ways.

I thank the Member for giving way. Does the Member find it strange, if not a tad hypocritical, that Executive parties here criticise the programme for government of the new Government of Ireland when, a year since getting this place back together and over 1,000 days since the last Assembly election, we have not seen a Programme for Government other than in draft form?

The Member has an extra minute.

You took the words out of my mouth. It is, indeed, hypocritical.

I turn to the North. We have our first nationalist First Minister, but there is still no mention of a shared island in the Executive's Programme for Government — hypocritical indeed. A thousand days have passed since the last Assembly election, and still we have only a draft Programme for Government. There is a distinct lack of ambition when it comes to exploring and embracing the full potential of a shared island, and we must ask ourselves, "Why have the Executive been so reluctant to match the ambition demonstrated by the Irish Government? Why?".

The motion calls on the Minister of Finance:

"to bring forward proposals for shared budgeting between the Northern Ireland Executive and the Irish Government".

That is a crucial step to addressing the deep-rooted issues that we face. Take cross-border cooperation on health. When it was working, the cross-border healthcare directive acted as a lifeline for people languishing on Northern waiting lists. Reimbursement for treatment in the Republic alleviated pressures on our waiting lists and, more importantly, provided people with timely access to healthcare and to improved health outcomes and overall quality of life. Another example of sensible partnership is found in the North West Cancer Centre, a life-changing initiative that allows people in the north-west to access cancer treatment without having to travel hundreds of miles.

I have long maintained that Daisy Hill Hospital in my constituency is unfairly disadvantaged because of its proximity to the border. In the eyes of the Department of Health, Daisy Hill is a peripheral hospital in a peripheral region: peripheral to what? Newry sits at the heart of the Belfast to Dublin corridor, the most populated region on this island, so I ask this again: peripheral to what? Throughout the pandemic, we heard repeatedly and saw writ large that illness does not recognise borders. That is the truth. If illness does not recognise borders, why should healthcare? Why should people in my constituency be expected to accept poorer access to healthcare and poorer health outcomes simply because they find themselves peripheral to a contrivance? Are we not entitled to expect a bit of ambition and forward thinking from our Executive? Where is the plan or even the plan for a plan to establish Daisy Hill Hospital as a cross-border area hospital?

Let me be clear: this is not about pushing the unity agenda for unity's sake, although I believe passionately in a reconciled, dynamic, diverse and united new Ireland. Rather, it is about recognising the potential for progress, prosperity and shared responsibility. It is about acting on the findings of best practice and expert research and investing in a future in which all the citizens of Ireland can benefit and flourish on a stronger, more interconnected island. I urge the Assembly to support the motion and to press both Governments to take the necessary steps to foster closer, more effective cooperation across the island. That starts here, not with pointing the finger at Dublin. Start it here. For the sake of our economy, our people and our future, let us embrace the transformative power of unity and cooperation.

Minister, you have up to 10 minutes.

Go raibh maith agat, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.

[Translation: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.]

I am delighted to be here this evening to address the House in my new role as Minister of Finance. I thank my colleagues in the Department for Infrastructure for all their hard work and assistance over the past year. I pay tribute to my predecessor, Dr Caoimhe Archibald. I am committed to building on the positive progress that Caoimhe made on our public finances.

I thank Members for their contributions to the debate. It should come as no surprise that I do not just recognise the potential of cross-border cooperation but see it as a vital element of our daily work. It is crucial if we are to improve the quality of and access to public services across the island, particularly along the border and in more rural areas. Cooperation is also important to growing the all-island economy that will deliver a better standard of living for all our people. We saw the importance of partnership working most recently when Governments North, South, east and west focused on urgently supporting the people and communities hardest hit by storm Éowyn.

Of course it was disappointing that the North/South Ministerial Council could not meet when there was no Executive in place. Since Ministers returned this time last year, however, there have been two plenary meetings, one institutional meeting and 10 sectoral meetings, not to mention the bilateral meetings that will have taken place separately between Ministers or in the margins of those other meetings. Ministers and their officials have regularly engaged with their counterparts in the Irish Government to deliver for citizens, communities and the economy across the island. Last year, for example, my predecessor, Minister Archibald, had separate meetings with the Irish Minister for Finance and Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform to discuss a range of important cross-border matters of relevance to my Department. She also accompanied our Minister of Education to the NSMC meeting in education sectoral format last year.

In my predecessor's meeting with Minister Donohoe, they discussed the vital work of the Special EU Programmes Body (SEUPB), which my Department sponsors jointly with the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform, and, in particular, how the €1 billion PEACE PLUS programme would be delivered across the North and the island's border counties.

The North/South bodies, of which the SEUPB is one, are perhaps the most prominent examples of how cooperation can work and is working in practice, with each being funded by the Assembly and the Government in Dublin. We continue to work with the Irish Government through the PEACE PLUS programme, as we did through its previous iterations, to deliver transformative shared spaces and to strengthen cross-community and cross-border relationships. The Peace programmes have touched many areas of life here including health, the environment, the economy and transport. They have helped to deliver a new transport hub in Derry, which has improved connectivity in the north-west.

There are many other examples of what Ministers and their Departments are doing outside the formal North/South structures. For example, in my previous role as Minister for Infrastructure, I progressed the all-island strategic rail review with my counterpart in Dublin. That is an excellent example of how we can plan on an all-island basis. With sufficient time and funding, that should provide services that better complement the development of the north-west transport hub. We have recent examples of how that can work in practice. The increased frequency of the rail service between Belfast and Dublin is an example of how, under the current structures, we can work across government and across the island to connect communities, unlock economic benefits and have a positive impact on people's lives. That was enabled by funding allocations from government bodies, North and South, and it will be further enhanced by Peace funding. It is critical that we continue to engage and deliver through North/South cooperation in order to meet our shared challenges and objectives. An effectively functioning North/South Ministerial Council is essential to that work.

Many Members have touched on cooperation on health, including through the all-island congenital heart disease network, which is a single service for children and young people across the island that has been cited in the Irish Government's Programme for Government as an exemplar that could be followed when it comes to other healthcare matters. Other Members mentioned the North West Cancer Centre. Cooperation on health provides an excellent example of long-standing cooperation, but the Shared Island initiative has unlocked further opportunities for us to work together on an all-island basis.

Departments already work in partnership with their counterparts in the South on many aspects of the Shared Island initiative, with some co-funding having been provided. The Department for the Economy works collaboratively with a range of Irish Government Departments on areas of mutual interest, including the single electricity market and on energy more generally. It is working closely with the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment to develop a new shared-island enterprise scheme that will focus on female entrepreneurship, cross-border networks, clusters and collaborative cross-border green investment. That is green as in green not green as in green.

[Laughter.]

That will strengthen all-island coordination and all-island research and increase scale through inter-agency collaboration. The Department of Education's RAISE programme is another example of how collaboration across the island supports people in the areas of most need.

The announcement of an additional €1 billion allocation from the Irish Government to their Shared Island Fund and the introduction of Shared Island targets for each Department in the South are extremely welcome. Looking ahead to the Chancellor's spending review, I am hopeful that new regional growth funds will be made available to our Executive, enabling us to unlock new investment opportunities.

We have an ambitious draft Programme for Government that sets out clear priorities and our longer-term mission. As we strive to do what matters most, we must be mindful of opportunities to maximise value wherever we share common goals that are aligned or complement each other and build on the existing strong joint working. The draft Budget for 2025-26, which, as Members know, is out for consultation, sets out the suggested funding that is available to Departments to do that next year. Unfortunately, the fiscal position is highly constrained because of decisions taken elsewhere. That only strengthens the need to exploit existing opportunities for greater collaboration.

I noted Members' reference to the new macroeconomic model, which was produced jointly by the Economic and Social Research Institute and the National Institute of Economic and Social Research. That is an exciting development, and their report clearly demonstrates the interdependence of the all-island economy and how we benefit from having close economic relationships on these islands and internationally. The new economic model will improve our understanding of how the economy here operates and help to give us a deeper insight into how much we can target investment and growth. I look forward to seeing how the model is used and evolves over the coming years. My officials, along with officials from the Department for the Economy, are engaging with the researchers to establish how we can harness the model to inform considerations in that regard. The new model really helps to show why North/South cooperation is so important.

In closing, let me say that I have set out how Ministers have been meeting regularly on a North/South basis since the institutions were restored this time last year, including via the North/South Ministerial Council. There are strong examples of how Departments are working together to deliver better outcomes on a cross-border and all-island basis. Again, just last week, First Minister Michelle O'Neill held discussions with the Taoiseach and Tánaiste not only on the storm but on the importance of delivering transformative projects, such as the A5 and Casement Park, which have the potential to bring real, lasting change to communities across the island.

Looking forward, we will continue to build on the cooperation that there has been so far in order to deliver better infrastructure and public services for all our citizens. Growing the all-island economy through deeper North/South cooperation will increase prosperity right across and benefit all parts of the island. In these times of limited resources, we must continue to work in partnership and collaboratively with the Irish Government to exploit existing opportunities. I am committed and look forward to continuing to deepen our relationship across the island, formally through the NSMC and informally. In doing so, we can better coordinate our efforts to invest in public services and delivery across the island. That is the best way to maximise the impact of our spending in order to deliver on our Programme for Government and our plan and to make real changes for the people whom we all represent.

Thank you very much indeed, Minister. I call on Matthew O'Toole to conclude and wind on the debate. Matthew, you have up to five minutes.

Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. Five minutes is, of course, nowhere near long enough to cover the breadth of Members' contributions and the importance of the subject.

It is important to say a couple of things at the start. Lots of Members talked about constitutional change. Indeed, as my two colleagues said, our party proudly aspires to constitutional change on this island and is unabashed about that. However, it is important to say that the motion does not mention constitutional change. It does not oblige anyone to support a united Ireland, but lots of people went there pretty quickly and felt that it was important to critique it from, for example, a unionist perspective, because they felt that it was committing them.

As a representative who believes in a new and united Ireland, I want the Northern Ireland Executive to work collaboratively with the UK Government as well as they possibly can. I want the maximum financial settlement, and I want collaboration. That does not undermine or change my view of the constitutional future. It is sensible and obvious. The motion does not threaten anybody, and it is completely rational. It is completely rational because of what is in the joint ESRI-NIESR report. I am glad, to be fair to the Minister, that he referenced that report. The report is, in a sense, an east-west collaboration between ESRI in Dublin and the National Economic and Social Research Institute in London. They have found the potential benefits. The report is a look at how a model of the Northern Ireland economy could be built to see how it could interact on an all-island basis. However, they missed the very real potential not only for economic growth but for joint investment in things such as infrastructure.

That is why our motion is not simply about the end of the NSMC meetings. North/South Ministerial Council meetings are important. The DUP thwarted them for years on end, which was a crude violation of the Good Friday Agreement and the ministerial Pledge of Office. However, meetings are not an end in themselves. Simply showing up and having meetings are not the outputs that our citizens seek. Transformative partnership is what we need to see, whether that is in the provision of healthcare or the delivery of infrastructure.

The Shared Island unit has marked a step change. The aspirations that are in the Irish Government's Programme for Government are significant. Declan Kearney made some comments about that not going far enough on Irish unity. There is some legitimacy to what he says, but I also say this: would that the Northern Executive match that. Sinn Féin Ministers hold the three biggest economic Departments — Finance, Economy and Infrastructure. I would like to see Sinn Féin Ministers show what they are doing to build the structures and muscle memory of North/South cooperation, rather than simply pushing it to Dublin all the time. I will hold him to his word and his colleagues to account.

I did not quite hear from the Minister a commitment to push for shared budgeting on a whole range of things. Shared budgeting would be an important step forward. There are some areas of shared budgeting. Diane Forsythe, my very able Deputy Chair in the Finance Committee, asked me this about shared budgeting:

"Where does he propose to draw that funding from?" to match the Irish Government. I will answer two of her points. Nowhere in our motion do I say that we should exactly match the Irish Government. Here is one of the reasons why: we cannot afford to. Why can we not afford to? It is because their economy is much stronger and healthier than ours and because they generate loads more tax than we do.

I acknowledge that Diane said that healthy North/South cooperation does not threaten anyone from a unionist or British perspective. I welcome that. It is important that she acknowledged that. She is right. All the unionist representatives who spoke acknowledged that. That is a positive step forward in how we debate these things in this place.

David Honeyford, as always, is very engaged on these subjects. I say this in the nicest possible way: I and, I think, one or two others from both a unionist and nationalist perspective slightly bristle at the idea that having a view on the constitution — my view is that the island of Ireland will function better when there is not an international border on it — is some profound failing, that it is a rigid ideology, and that only the Alliance Party is smart enough and ethical enough not to hold to such rigid, outdated ideologies. That is not me, nor is it my party.

Will the Member give way?

Yes, because you are going to get me an extra minute.

I mean this very respectfully: some members of the Alliance Party do hold constitutional views. In fact, the late Anna Lo was not shy about sharing hers. She was commended by Kate Nicholl, because she was seen as being very brave for having shared that.

You have put that on the record. Anna Lo —.

The Member has an extra minute.

I am going to move on to some other points.

Will the Member give way? No?

I will not give way, because I do not have enough time. We can talk about it outside the Chamber. It is not really the main thrust of what we are talking about.

The purpose of our motion is not to presuppose a constitutional outcome but to talk about the potential for building cooperation on this island. I have no qualms about saying that I think that we will be much better off when there is not a border on the island of Ireland. For a whole range of reasons, the best future for Northern Ireland is back in a new Ireland, inside the European Union. However, until we get there, and even if we do not get there, which is the aspiration of unionist Members, we need to grow and deepen North/South cooperation. We need much more ambition than we have in the current Northern Programme for Government, which has very little. Justin McNulty talked passionately, as he does, about healthcare provision in Daisy Hill. He is exactly right: whatever your view on the border in the long term, it should not be the limits of our aspiration or ambition for our people. We should see beyond it, whether that is building all-island rail infrastructure, green jobs for our people, better healthcare or all the other opportunities.

I commend the motion to the Assembly.

Question put.

The Assembly divided:

<SPAN STYLE="font-style:italic;"> Ayes 31; Noes 24

AYES

Ms K Armstrong, Mr Baker, Mr Blair, Ms Bradshaw, Miss Brogan, Mrs Dillon, Mr Durkan, Ms Egan, Ms Ennis, Ms Ferguson, Ms Flynn, Mr Gildernew, Mrs Guy, Miss Hargey, Mr Honeyford, Ms Hunter, Mr Kearney, Mr McAleer, Mr McGlone, Mr McGuigan, Ms McLaughlin, Mr McMurray, Mr McNulty, Mrs Mason, Mr Mathison, Mr Muir, Ms Á Murphy, Mr O'Dowd, Mr O'Toole, Ms Reilly, Ms Sheerin

Tellers for the Ayes: Mr Durkan, Mr McNulty

NOES

Mr Bradley, Mr Brett, Mr Brooks, Ms Brownlee, Mr K Buchanan, Mr Buckley, Ms Bunting, Mr Butler, Mrs Cameron, Mr Clarke, Mr Crawford, Mr Dunne, Mrs Erskine, Ms Forsythe, Mr Frew, Mr Harvey, Mr Irwin, Mr Kingston, Mrs Little-Pengelly, Mr Lyons, Miss McIlveen, Mr Martin, Mr Middleton, Mr Robinson

Tellers for the Noes: Mr Crawford, Mr Frew

Question accordingly agreed to.

Resolved:

That this Assembly recognises the transformative potential of cross-border cooperation on the island of Ireland; expresses regret that, due to political dysfunction, the North/South Ministerial Council (NSMC) has not lived up to its potential in supporting cross-border cooperation; notes the range of commitments in the Irish Government’s Programme for Government on the Shared Island initiative, which compares unfavourably with the lack of ambition in the Executive’s Programme for Government; further notes the findings of the recent economic modelling work on an all-island economy undertaken by the Economic and Social Research Institute (ESRI); and calls on the Minister of Finance to bring forward proposals for shared budgeting between the Northern Ireland Executive and the Irish Government, including, but not limited to, cross-border healthcare, all-island infrastructure and economic development.

Adjourned at 6.55 pm.