Opposition Business – in the Northern Ireland Assembly at 3:00 pm on 14 January 2025.
I beg to move
That this Assembly affirms the importance of relationships and sexuality education (RSE) in fostering healthy young adult relationships and mitigating violence against women and girls; acknowledges the findings of Ulster University’s healthy young adult relationships project report, which highlights that RSE is not currently fit for purpose, particularly in addressing coercive control; and calls on the Minister of Education to work with the Minister of Justice to establish a task force with the purpose of enhancing RSE to include healthy relationships and ways to prevent violence against women and girls, and to review and implement the recommendations of the healthy young adult relationships project report no later than December 2025.
The Business Committee has agreed to allow up to one hour for the debate. The proposer of the motion will have five minutes in which to propose and five minutes in which to make a winding-up speech. As two amendments have been selected and are published on the Marshalled List, the Business Committee has agreed that 16 minutes will be added to the total time for the debate. Please open the debate on the motion.
Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I thank the Members from across the House who have given us their attention and enthusiasm throughout the previous debates. I thank them for being here and contributing.
I rise to address a critical issue, which is how we educate our young people on establishing and maintaining healthy relationships. Relationships and sexuality education, which is also known as "RSE", should equip our young people with the knowledge and skills to foster healthy relationships, understand boundaries and recognise harmful behaviours. However, for some, including me, RSE in Northern Ireland has, historically, definitely not been fit for purpose. It is really important that it encompasses things such as consent.
The findings of Ulster University's healthy young adult relationships project are stark. They reveal significant gaps in how we teach our young people about coercive control, consent and the dynamics of power and abuse in relationships. Those gaps are not just academically recognised; they have real-world consequences, some of which were highlighted in our previous debates. Across the House, we know the statistics: one in three women worldwide will experience either physical or sexual violence in their lifetime, most often, sadly, at the hands of their partner. In Northern Ireland, domestic abuse crimes reached a record high last year, with over 35,000 incidents reported. Every one of us hears about and sees such things happening all the time in our constituencies. It is absolutely devastating for the victims. A 2021 study found that 71% of our young people across these islands have experienced or witnessed coercive control in their relationships.
For years, our curriculum here has been woefully outdated. The Education (Curriculum Minimum Content) Order 2007, which sets out what should be included and discussed in RSE, does not mention the word "consent" even once: that is crazy. Consent exists in all aspects of our lives. How can we expect young people to navigate the complexities of modern relationships when we fail to teach them about that fundamental concept? I feel strongly about that.
The Education Committee is working through RSE developments and coming to agreement. Thankfully, we agree on more than we disagree on, so I think that there is a wide acknowledgement of the need to educate our young people. We have been listening to young people as well, and I thank the team at the Secondary Students' Union (SSUNI), particularly a young lady named Lauren, who has put together a document called 'Let Us Learn', which explores issues such as the importance of consent, understanding what coercive control looks like and, most important, educating our young people who are experiencing abuse in relationships so that they have the words to describe it, to understand what it looks like and to know whom to go to and to speak to if they are experiencing harm, intimidation or threat. I also spoke with young ladies at Thornhill College in Derry, and they had talked through the importance of including things such as the dangers of spiking in our RSE curriculum. They said that they do not feel ready for the world, and they think that RSE can be one answer in preparing them for real-life situations and preparing them to go out into the world and feeling most confident when establishing and maintaining relationships.
Consent is not just a box to tick; it is the cornerstone of healthy relationships. Without a clear understanding of consent, young people are left vulnerable to coercion, abuse and harm. That is particularly urgent when we consider the rise of online abuse, image-based sexual violence and the normalisation of harmful gender stereotypes in digital spaces. It is also really important that we talk about things such as rape myths in RSE and ensure that they are part of the conversation.
This is about not just education but prevention, and comprehensive RSE has been shown to reduce rates of sexual violence, improve relationship satisfaction and empower young people to make informed choices. It is about giving them the tools to recognise abuse and arming them with the confidence to know where to go to seek help and to speak up. That is why, today, I call on the Minister of Education to work with the Minister of Justice to establish a task force dedicated to enhancing RSE. The task force must address the gaps identified in the healthy young adult relationships project and implement its recommendations by December 2025. The reason why that is so important is that it is a tangible target and has a timeline. It is very topical, and we have been doing extensive research at Committee level. I really think that establishing a task force will bring a lot of justice to the topic.
Why now? We cannot afford to wait. I firmly believe that, every day that we delay, we fail another generation of young people. We fail to equip them with the knowledge to build respectful relationships, and we fail to protect them from harm. I urge every Member across the House to vote for our motion.
Thank you. I call David Brooks to move amendment No 1.
Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. With the shortened speaking times —.
Please move the amendment.
Leave out all after the first "report" and insert: "particularly concerns around RSE and understanding of coercive control; calls on the Minister of Education, in keeping with commitments flowing from the Executive’s ending violence against women and girls strategic framework, to work with the Minister of Justice to develop an action plan with the purpose of coordinating interventions targeted at children and young people to promote healthy relationships and prevent violence against women and girls; and further calls on the Minister, having considered a wide range of views about enhancing healthy relationships, and respecting the right of parents to withdraw their child from elements of RSE, to review the recommendations of the healthy young adult relationships project report."
Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker, for the second time. With constrained speaking times today, the Chair of the Education Committee and other colleagues from the Committee may wonder whether I will get past the preamble in the debate.
In the context of the debate, although the term "RSE" often invokes passionate and diametrically opposed positions and, as we may see, differences even in how we should approach such education, it is important that we outline that on which there is agreement. I do not think that there is any Member of the Assembly who would not argue that we have work to do in addressing the trend in violence towards women and girls in our society. We will all have been part of debates in the Chamber, often following another horrific attack or murder. Many will have had to engage with the families or individuals affected and speak to police or press about incidents in our constituencies.
Many aspects of concern have been brought to the Education Committee during our mini RSE inquiry, an inquiry that, in general terms, has probably taken disproportionate priority and, perhaps, more time than many of us would have liked. Nevertheless, it has produced some useful sessions and information. Many sessions have found broad agreement on issues around violence against women and girls, online harms and ensuring that young people have age-appropriate tools to enable them to understand when someone has been inappropriate with them and how to report that. It is important to recognise that, on an issue that is often defined by polarising points or finer nuances on which we will continue to disagree, we often share similar concerns around the issues at the heart of the discussion.
The curtailed time that I have does not allow for an in-depth discussion of the Ulster University report, but, in general, I feel that much work in that area is worth considering. However, at some point, we need to step beyond theorising and focus on forward movement and action. I also express some concern about the weight given to reports — it applies not only to this report — that seem to be based on a relatively small and potentially quite unrepresentative sample. In any case, the Executive have now agreed an overarching strategy that outlines their range of commitments to addressing violence against women and girls and to promoting healthy relationships, with collaboration by Departments across the Executive. The report, in some instances, will share synergy on some issues with which, as has been said, sadly, we are all increasingly familiar.
The Executive's strategy is to be actioned through a delivery plan, which is to say that the Ministers already have a blueprint for action. I know that the Education Minister is committed to playing his part. That blueprint, rather than regularly published academic or interest group papers, should now provide a plan for action and progress that should be the focus for Executive Ministers. I am not arguing that this and other reports and submissions should not be duly considered, but it is one of a range of contributions on the issue, many of which will have helped to shape and inform the thinking of Members and Ministers and should be considered in that manner rather than being adopted as an alternative action plan to the Executive's plan.
Again, I will address the changes that we have proposed to the motion. Personally, I am not convinced of the ask for a joint departmental task force to be assembled. It feels like a proposal that will simply take up more time. There is already a commitment to the cross-departmental action plan. Departments and, I am sure, Ministers are more than aware and informed of the issues at hand and are more than capable of collaborating and considering the necessary steps that they can collaborate on. They are best placed to put forward any further proposals or structures required, and I am sure that the Minister will touch on that.
I have listened and will listen to the Opposition's arguments today, but my initial thinking is that such a proposal, in the context of the motion and the existing work that Departments have committed to, seems arbitrary. I am not convinced that it would necessarily lead to expedited or additional meaningful action in the area.
Our amendment also commits to parental consent. I have expressed before that I do not believe that there would be many cases in which parents would wish to have a child excluded from such teaching. Even representatives from groups that may normally be stereotyped as being resistant to elements of RSE have expressed their lack of an issue with many elements discussed during the RSE mini inquiry. It was noted that rates of potential parental opt-out have been exceptionally low, even among people of faith. That said, the right to exercise parental rights should remain. This party continues to support the right of parents to parent their children; they should have primacy and the right to raise their children in accordance with their own beliefs and principles within the law. To be fair, the importance of parental —.
Time is up.
Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker.
Thank you, Mr Brooks.
I call Kate Nicholl to move amendment No 2.
Leave out all after "coercive control;" and insert: "agrees that recommendations on the future policy direction for RSE will be best addressed following the completion of the inquiry by the Committee for Education into RSE curriculum and provision, which is due to conclude in January 2025; calls on the Minister of Education to, in the interim, outline the completed and planned actions from his Department to implement relevant recommendations from the Gillen review; and further calls on the Minister to confirm when he will produce an action plan to deliver on his Department's responsibilities under the strategic framework to end violence against women and girls."
The Assembly should note that the amendments are mutually exclusive. If amendment No 1 is made, the Question will not be put on amendment No 2. The Member has five minutes to propose the amendment and three minutes to make a winding-up speech. All other Members who are called to speak will have three minutes.
I thank the proposer of the motion. I think that we all welcome any opportunity to talk about tackling violence against women and girls, and RSE is such an important part of that.
I start by paying tribute to my colleague Sorcha Eastwood MP, who made such a personal and moving speech in the House of Commons earlier this week about her experience of domestic abuse. It takes so much bravery to talk about those experiences, and what she has faced since, on social media in particular, has been vile.
I have moved from the Education Committee to the Economy Committee, but I have always been really passionate about RSE. I have spoken in the House about how educating our young people is safeguarding and will play such an important role in changing the toxic attitudes that make Northern Ireland the most dangerous place in Europe to be a woman. The sentiment of the motion is good, and we welcome it, but the Alliance amendment is concerned more with the how.
We were surprised to see an RSE motion in the Order Paper in light of the fact that the Education Committee is just weeks away from wrapping up the inquiry on this very topic. The inquiry has heard from a wide range of experts — I have been watching — including the excellent healthy young adult relationships project, which is referenced in the motion, and has received a huge number of reports and submissions.
My party's amendment challenges what additional benefit would be yielded by requesting yet another task force when we have the Gillen review, the Committee's ongoing work, the ETI report on preventative curriculum and the Executive's strategy and action plan on ending violence against women and girls. Whilst we agree that we cannot afford to wait, we are concerned that another task force would risk disrupting and possibly delaying actions that should be well under way.
Ultimately, policy around RSE reform is a matter for the Education Minister. The inquiry has heard from a diverse range of stakeholders who agree on the pivotal role that RSE plays in challenging dangerous mindsets and also in safeguarding, as I mentioned, so that our young people are able to recognise the signs of abuse. It is that latter point, in particular, that galvanises support from organisations such as the NSPCC, the Northern Ireland Commissioner for Children and Young People and the Children's Law Centre, to name a few, that a standardised and mandatory RSE curriculum is necessary to protect our children and young people from harm. Acknowledging the specific duties of the Education Minister on RSE is not to abdicate the Justice Minister from any role in that space when talking about violence against women and girls. On the contrary, the Justice Minister has been extremely proactive in that regard. For example, she brought forward the first stand-alone domestic abuse legislation in Northern Ireland, which included criminalising coercive control.
Of course, it is vital to prevent behaviours that result in convictions. I remember that, in 2021, in recognition of that fact, Minister Long met the then Education Minister, Peter Weir, to understand how the RSE minimum content order could better support work to prevent offending and tackle the toxic ideas that some people have around sexual relationships and that can be promoted online. Minister Weir agreed that the Department of Education would take the lead on the subgroup of the Gillen education and awareness group to look at the provision of RSE in schools, including a review of the minimum content order. Unfortunately, neither Minister Weir nor his successor took that forward. That was partly due to the collapse of these institutions, which, inevitably, set back vital work across a range of priorities.
That having been said, I am encouraged by the current Minister's responses to questions for written answer. He has said that his Department is considering how the curriculum and specifically RSE can support the ending violence against women and girls strategy. Therefore, my party's amendment requests an update from the Education Minister on completed and planned actions on the Gillen review, as well as responsibilities under the strategic framework to end violence against women and girls. I hope that Members will endorse our amendment, which welcomes the spirit of the motion and its original intention, but seeks to ensure that the motion's focus on RSE is directed appropriately.
The time for task forces and reports has passed. Our focus must now be on delivery of a fit-for-purpose RSE regime. That includes necessary support and training for teachers and schools. Ultimately, that is how we will deliver societal change. That is what is needed to grapple with the issue, which is not only ruining the lives of many young women and girls but is, ultimately, costing lives. My party hopes that you will support our amendment. We support the motion's intention.
Sinn Féin fully supports the need for a relationships and sexuality education curriculum that is age-appropriate, fact-based and delivered consistently across all schools. If we are serious about issues such as child safeguarding, supporting young people to have happy and healthy relationships, consent and tacking violence against women and girls, giving children access to proper RSE in schools is vital. I have sat on the Education Committee for a number of years. One thing that has come up time and time again is the inconsistency of provision and, often, lack of provision of RSE in schools. Young people themselves have told us that. Many tell us that they go through their entire educational journey without receiving education on that topic.
While it is important to commend schools that deliver high-quality RSE to their pupils, the issue here is consistency — or, in this case, lack of consistency. Many schools are not grasping that it is an issue. Some are being led by external influences. That does not serve the needs of children and young people. Teachers need to be empowered, and they need the proper training and resources to teach RSE effectively. New legislation is welcome, but will it deliver what is required? I am not sure that it will.
The topic needs to be underpinned by fact when it is taught to young people and to be delivered in a consistent manner across schools. There can be no equivocation in that. The need for proper RSE as part of the curriculum is clear. It is a child protection issue, and, according to the NSPCC:
"All school-age children and young people should receive whole-school comprehensive and inclusive RSE across all years. RSE can play a vital role in the safeguarding of children and young people. A whole-school comprehensive and inclusive approach to RSE has the potential to prevent harm to children by supporting children to recognise abuse and know how and where they can ask for help, understand consent and healthy relationships; and by enabling more adults to identify concerning behaviour and know what to do if a disclosure is made."
Such organisations are the experts, and they should be listened to.
I have been clear in previous debates on education that the child should be central in policy development.
Time is up.
I have also said countless times that we need to be led by the evidence.
Our children and young people are growing up in an increasingly complex digital world where they need to know how to stay safe and be healthy. Like other Members, I want to make sure that young people understand what healthy relationships look like and how they can navigate their personal lives in a positive, safe and healthy way to embrace the challenges of creating a happy and successful adult life. RSE can support children and young people to develop healthy relationships and to keep themselves and others safe, both online and offline. Whilst we know that many schools already teach those topics, very well in some cases, it is important that we ensure universal coverage and improve quality for all pupils.
The focus of RSE in primary school should be on building healthy relationships, including friendships and family relationships, and on dealing with strangers, with the ultimate goal of staying safe. As children move to secondary school, they should start to develop their understanding of healthy adult relationships in more depth. That should include different types of relationships. Young people should be taught how to recognise, understand and build healthy relationships, including through teaching on self-respect and respect for others, tolerance, boundaries and on how to recognise unhealthy relationships, including coercive control.
It is evident that wider concerns about the safety and well-being of women and girls relate to the types of topic that the subject can cover, such as online abuse, sexting, sexual harassment, stalking and ways of preventing violence against women and girls. The healthy young adult relationships project report, which was written by researchers at Ulster University, makes evidence-based recommendations on the teaching of age-appropriate knowledge and information to build healthy and safe relationships.
RSE is a multidisciplinary subject, and any improved working relationships involving the Department of Education and the Department of Justice should be welcomed in enhancing RSE as a method of tackling violence against women and girls.
I will be brief. I want to address how violence against girls is dealt with within relationships and sexuality education. Given the history of the issue in Northern Ireland and the position of parties on the matter, it will come as a surprise to some that the House has had to wait until my contribution to hear anyone highlight the world's biggest killer when it comes to girls: abortion. It is estimated that, in 2024, some 14 million children were issued out into eternity before they could even be born. In many countries, abortion means that girls are vastly more likely to perish than boys. It is shameful that there is not more openness on the issue. In October last year, I asked the Health Minister to detail the number of abortions that have been carried out since the change in legislation and for the figure to be broken down by health and social care trust. He still has not answered. Tellingly, no other MLA has asked that question. The last MLA to get a reply was Jim Allister, who was told in May 2024 that the figure stood at 8,490. If Members are concerned about violence against girls and want to address it in a motion about RSE, the motion should attack the fact that RSE must, by law, teach pupils how to access services that result in the end of life.
If we want to end gender-based violence for good, we need to prevent it from happening in the first place and from the earliest possible stages. We need to change the cultural attitudes that allow gender-based violence to spread across society as well as in the home, and the best way in which to teach that is in the classroom.
Standardised and inclusive RSE should be taught in every single school across the board to help fight harmful stereotypes about gender and to promote relationships based on respect, equality and consent. High-quality RSE can stamp out sexism, misogyny, victim blaming and rape culture. The DUP amendment, if made, will effectively allow pupils to skip, as the Member for South Belfast indicated, essential, life-saving education and learning of life skills. Instead, the reality is that young people are in a postcode lottery when it comes to RSE, which varies widely in quality, quantity and content, if it happens at all.
We need to fight back against racist, far-right myths about the role of so-called grooming gangs in child sexual exploitation. Those myths are being peddled by some in the House. The perpetrators of abuse and violence against women are usually males who are white. Child sexual exploitation and violence against women is, in the vast majority of cases, perpetrated by people who are known to the victim and their family. We cannot allow people's justified outrage at violence and child exploitation to be weaponised by far-right agitators, who are out only to make political gain.
We also need to examine critically the role of Churches and religious bodies in RSE. Churches should not have a veto over what is taught in schools or in education settings, especially when it comes to teaching young people about consent and healthy relationships. Organisations that have anti-trans and anti-LGBT agendas should not dictate school policy on what is taught either. The DUP talks about the importance of parental choice in education, especially for RSE, but, in practice, its actions show a shocking lack of respect for parental choice when it comes to school integration. The DUP cannot have it both ways.
We are also missing an important opportunity by not having a school-wide roll-out of the NSPCC Talk PANTS programme. It is an age-appropriate programme to make young people aware of what abuse can look like in order to protect and safeguard them in cases in which they could be at risk of abuse. Disappointingly, the Department does not have the figures for the number of schools that have availed themselves of that possibly life-saving resource. I urge the Minister to get the data, get the research and ensure that the programme is rolled out in schools right across the North.
I recall a meeting that I had as Minister of Justice a number of years ago. It was with a group of young people probably aged between 14 and 16. The conversations that we had about what was felt to be appropriate or, indeed, inappropriate stayed with me. It is shocking to know and understand what young people are thinking and are saying to one another. Eight years later, young people are still telling me troubling stories about life online, and we heard about the WhatsApp group in the previous debate, where hundreds of boys and young men say the most inappropriate things. There are figures on the influence of harmful figures on social media and on the deep hurt and fear that young women and girls are feeling.
The world that our children are navigating today is very different from the world in which we all grew up. As a parent, I recognise my limitations. I do not fully understand the challenges that children and young people are experiencing today. I suggest that most of us in the Chamber do not understand those challenges.
I am self-aware enough to know that, 10 years from now, when my child becomes that age, I will know much less. I want my daughter and all young people, including boys and young men, to be equipped with the knowledge and skills to navigate, regrettably, one of the most dangerous regions in Europe for young girls and women. That is why RSE matters.
I appreciate that parents worry that RSE will overstep into their role. However, RSE is carefully designed to be age appropriate, and I fully expect that our current Minister of Education will ensure that. RSE for younger children is about kindness and boundaries, and for older children, it is about consent, respect and recognising abuse. It is not a displacement of parental or family rights; rather, it complements what we teach at home, providing young people with the tools that they need to thrive in relationships and society.
It is important to note that babies do not come with a manual and perfect parents are not born the day their children are. Why do we assume that all parents do not need help in this area? Why do we assume that parents do not need to be guided in how to become parents? We do not do well, in Northern Ireland, in supporting our parents. We teach women how to give birth; I do not think we teach men or dads anything. I suggest that RSE is a way of complementing our parenting skills, not a way of interfering in them.
Of course, we must deliver it well, which is why we propose a task force to ensure that teachers are trained. The Minister knows that teachers, parents and young people are asking for that. This is not about preventing harm but creating a culture of respect where consent is understood, harmful norms are challenged and everyone can thrive in a healthy relationship.
That concludes our list of Members who wish to speak. I call on the Minister of Education to respond. Minister, you have up to 10 minutes.
Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am grateful for the opportunity to respond to the motion and the amendment.
I begin by placing on record that relationships and sexuality education is an important part of the curriculum, particularly in developing our young people both as well-rounded individuals and contributors to society. Effective RSE encourages children and young people to value themselves and make responsible and well-informed decisions about their lives. Education about healthy relationships can help to address very serious societal issues, such as violence against women and girls, understanding and respecting consent, dealing with misogyny and coercive control. Violence against women and girls — indeed, violence in all forms — is a systemic and deep-rooted problem in our society. Addressing it is a key priority for our Executive. Schools are well placed to help shape the behaviours and attitudes of our young people and to support future generations to develop healthy, respectful relationships. That is done through RSE but also more widely across the curriculum and in schools' culture, policies and practice.
A recent report by the National Youth Agency stressed that young people need more than just RSE in the classroom to develop healthy relationships. It emphasised the vital contribution that role models play throughout the different aspects of young people's lives, including parents, grandparents and youth and community workers. Young people need long-term, trusting relationships with adults to whom they can talk about the challenges and issues that they experience.
I note that the healthy young adults relationships project report from Ulster University was referenced in the motion, and it is an important contribution to understanding the issues surrounding coercive control and its impact on young people. I pay particular tribute to the young people from the Lagmore Youth Project who played a key role, working with the research team, in developing the report. We need to listen to the views of those young people, and our young people and their families, and be informed by them.
I emphasise that learning about healthy relationships is currently an important part of the school curriculum. Children and young people begin to learn about the importance of relationships as soon as they start school. From Foundation Stage, pupils should be enabled to explore themselves, their personal attributes and their own and others' feelings and emotions. Some of the issues to be explored as children progress through school include: initiating, developing and sustaining mutually satisfying relationships; human rights; and social responsibility. In post-primary school, young people are also given opportunities to explore the qualities of a loving, respectful relationship, developing coping strategies to deal with challenging relationship scenarios and strategies to avoid and resolve conflict.
To support schools in the effective delivery of the RSE curriculum, CCEA has developed its RSE progression framework to provide a sequenced pathway in priority areas of RSE from Foundation Stage through to post-16. That includes the important area of domestic and sexual violence and abuse.
It is also my priority to learn from, and disseminate examples of, excellent practice that we already see in our schools. Some of those were highlighted by the Education and Training Inspectorate in its 2022 survey on the preventative curriculum. For example, one post-primary school identified a group of year 10 girls who required a time-bound programme on healthy relationships in response to a recent incident. The impact of the intervention resulted in a greater understanding of respect, positive decision-making and a decrease in behavioural incidents. Fifteen teachers also volunteered to mentor year 10 girls to support their emotional well-being, and training was provided in trauma-informed practice.
Teachers know best how to teach, how to convey knowledge effectively and how to unlock understanding. In order to bring the curriculum to life, teachers need the space to create lessons that engage their pupils, and children need the time to develop their thinking and to retain and apply knowledge. I would be wrong, therefore, not to note my concern about the growing tendency, not just in Northern Ireland but globally, to place unrealistic expectations on schools to solve every issue that faces society. Our rapidly changing world places new demands on society, especially the education sector, on issues from tackling poverty to addressing family breakdown to the challenges of the digital age to violence against women and girls. There is an increasing, pervasive belief that schools alone can, and should, provide the solutions. Interest groups, politicians and Governments put increasing pressure on the school curriculum to change in response to these multiple issues and competing demands. At the same time, the school curriculum lacks the space to easily add new content without causing overcrowding. While schools have a role to play — an important role — we must be careful not to burden them with being the sole agents of change. The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development has raised particular concerns in that regard. An overloaded curriculum can put pressure on teachers to teach an excess of material, potentially risking superficial content coverage. Students may also feel stress and pressure due to a lack of time to consider issues thoroughly. That, in turn, can undermine their ability to engage in deeper learning. Curriculum overload can be a stressor to students and teachers —
— and even serve as an impediment to learning.
I am not going to give way to the Member. Thank goodness that he does not have responsibility for RSE in our schools. Never would I want my children to be subject to the kind of approach that he would take to RSE. I will not give way to that Member.
The OECD is also very clear about two issues: students need to learn deeper, not more; and subjects should not simply be independent blocks, but rather interdependent pieces of puzzle to create a coherent whole with opportunities for cross-curricular learning on key concepts. That is why I am keen not to isolate RSE from the reality of the wider school curriculum by establishing a separate one-issue task force. Rather, I wish to consider it coherently as an integral part of my wider review of the curriculum.
Members will know that I have engaged Lucy Crehan to carry out a focused review of the design and delivery of the Northern Ireland curriculum. Our current skills-based curriculum was introduced in 2007. Areas of the current curriculum lack clarity on the core knowledge and skills to be developed. Critically, in every area of learning, pupils' experiences of the curriculum may, therefore, vary significantly from school to school, depending on the leadership approach to curriculum development. I want to ensure that every child is taught a broad, ambitious and knowledge-rich curriculum that develops their learning in a well-sequenced and explicit manner. Such an approach will also support our teachers with high-quality resources. We need a new approach to the curriculum in Northern Ireland that continues to limit unnecessary prescription but specifies the key knowledge and accompanying skills that every child should expect to master in core subjects at every Key Stage. That revised approach is vital for RSE, as well as all other areas of the curriculum. Focus, rigour and coherence are key curriculum design principles in all top-performing nations, with crucial topics being identified and ordered in a logical way to create well-structured progression for educational experts, not long lists of contemporary issues that politicians and interest lobbies identify.
That brings me neatly to one of the amendments. I note the Committee's inquiry, which will, no doubt, gather important evidence from stakeholders. However, I am concerned that the best approaches to curriculum and pedagogy should come not from politicians but from educationalists, who are well informed about the development of a well-sequenced, communicative and thoughtful learning experience. I also highlight the fact that my officials have been part of the Gillen review implementation group since 2020. Three out of the four actions that were assigned to my Department have been completed. Work on addressing what are commonly referred to as "rape myths" will be taken forward under the leadership of the Department of Justice, with input from CCEA as needed. I am also fully committed to supporting the delivery of the strategic framework to end violence against women and girls. That will be reflected in the plans and actions that my Department will take forward.
Relationships and sexuality education is a crucial part of promoting healthy relationships. I am committed to ensuring that we have a fit-for-purpose curriculum for RSE and, indeed, every subject area that carefully builds on and sequences children's key knowledge and understanding of those important issues as they progress through their education.
Thank you, Minister, for that response. I call Nick Mathison to make a winding-up speech on amendment No 2. Nick, you have up to three minutes.
Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am very conscious that my time is short, so I will keep my remarks as brief as possible. I probably will not have the opportunity to refer to individual Members' points.
I will refer to the Minister's points briefly before I go any further. I welcome the Minister's confirmation that he considers RSE to be a crucial part of the curriculum in Northern Ireland. That is certainly a very different tone from the previous time that we debated RSE, when, I think, he referred to sex education as "the Alliance Party's pet project". It is good to see that the Minister has moved on from that, and the debate in the Chamber has reflected that RSE is certainly much more than that.
I will emphasise a couple of things. First, while the motion is welcome, its timing is odd. The Education Committee is very close to concluding its inquiry. Some Members have suggested that the inquiry has run for longer than they would like, but we have heard evidence from those who are involved in the healthy young adult relationships project and from a whole range of expert witnesses. While many of the recommendations in the report that was referenced are very welcome, it would be good to deal with the issue in the round and bring some recommendations to the Assembly and to the Minister that take into account all the evidence that was heard by the Committee.
I also want to make it very clear, as my colleague Kate Nicholl did, that the Justice Minister is very keen to work with all Departments in the space of promoting healthy relationships and tackling violence against women and girls. The motion's stated purpose, however, was about enhancing RSE, and it is very clear that the responsibility for that lies with the Education Minister. We definitely do not need another task force to do that; we simply need an Education Minister who will listen to young people and ensure that we have an RSE curriculum that is fit for purpose and meets the needs of young people rather than the inconsistent and patchy provision that we see across Northern Ireland. It is very clear from the Minister's contribution that dealing with violence against women and girls is a whole-Executive challenge. It is a whole-society challenge. I do not argue with that at all, but RSE is critical to that, and it lies with his Department. It is important that that is not pushed aside by saying, "Well, look, it is for everybody". Delivering the right curriculum is for the Minister.
On that basis, I hope that our amendment receives support. It lets the Committee process run its course and deliver a full suite of recommendations on RSE in due course. It further asks that the Minister sets out updates on his work on the Gillen review and the strategic framework. We have heard a little bit today about that, but I would have liked to hear a bit more detail on it.
I will turn very briefly to the DUP amendment. Regrettably, it fails to acknowledge something really crucial, which is the fact that RSE is failing our young people. That amendment does not acknowledge that RSE is not fit for purpose, so, in light of that starting point, we cannot support it. We need to see change in that space.
We do not need to focus our energy on a new task force. We need to sort out the reform of the curriculum and the RSE delivery that we all know are so desperately needed.
I call Diane Dodds to make a winding-up speech on amendment No 1. Diane, you have up to three minutes.
Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. If we look at the positives from the debate, we could say that the Chamber is committed to a society where violence against women and girls is a thing of the past.
There is an understanding and a broad consensus on the need to help young people to understand what loving, healthy, respectful relationships are and how they can be part of one.
To the proposer of the motion, it is important to say that we need to help young people and, indeed, adults. The Health Committee spent some time talking about older adults and the issues of consent and coercive control.
Will the Member give way?
No, I am sorry. I do not have any time.
All those things are hugely important. However, when we, as a body of politicians, are here deciding on a motion and even on legislation, the evidence that we use should be wide-ranging and broadly based. I thank the young people who are referred to in the text for their contributions. It is massively important to hear from young people, but we also need to hear the outcomes of, for example, the RSE inquiry that the Education Committee is taking forward and from many other groups. I think that there is consensus among some in the Chamber on that.
It is really important to talk to young people; I have said and emphasised that. That is massive. It is also important to talk about and acknowledge the role of parents, teachers and governors in developing the RSE curriculum. Over 13,000 people responded to a recent consultation exercise that the Department of Education conducted on the teaching around abortion in the RSE curriculum. That is one of the largest consultation responses that, I am sure, you will get anywhere. It confirmed the need for the RSE curriculum to be developed and consulted on in a local setting and in partnership with parents, teachers and school governors. That is also important.
Mr Carroll talked about the DUP. In the consultation responses, there were parents who also argued for the right to opt out if they wanted to do so. It is important that we acknowledge parental choice on the issue.
We have talked a lot about the issues of consent and how we deal with them. We should all be encouraged that, in the wider review of the curriculum, the Minister has confirmed that those issues can be integrated —
The Member's time is up.
— across the curriculum. That is the type of exciting innovation that we need for the future.
I call Colin McGrath to conclude and wind up the debate on the motion. The Member has up to five minutes.
Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker.
In every society and in every age, there is an injustice on which everybody feels that they must come together to overcome in order for us to have a peaceful and civil society. In the last number of years, the issue of violence against women and girls has really come to the fore and needs to be addressed by us. It was in that spirit that the Opposition tabled a suite of motions that we can debate and discuss in this place today. It gives us an opportunity to test where there is consensus and agreement in order to see how we can progress and move matters forward.
The debate has been positive. I sense that, in the Chamber, there is more that we agree than we disagree on. Importantly, that sends a message to people that we are trying to work together to achieve a programme that will work in our schools and help our young people.
There are undeniable facts. We have one of the highest rates for murders of women. As a society, we should not just sit back and acknowledge that; we must do something about it. In order to do something about it, we must recognise — there is a fair recognition of this — that there is, among some, a value base or an approach that is inconsistent with the peaceful society that we want to see.
The best way to support young people is, first and foremost, within the family, and then we get the opportunity to reinforce that in the education system by educating young people. That also allows us to address the imbalances, if there are any, where families are not teaching the correct values for society. We get that opportunity to do what we can to address the imbalances.
I thank the Member for giving way. The Minister has no longer any excuses for not introducing standardised RSE across the board. Teachers are under pressure — all education workers are — so does the Member agree that it would be worth looking at the amount of time that teachers spend on examinations and homework, which put a lot of pressure on them and on young people? That could be a way to look at the issue of RSE.
The Member has an extra minute.
I am in the job of trying to get votes, so I will not say that there should be more homework. That is something that should be addressed.
In this context, however, we should prioritise the type of education that we want to give our young people that shapes them best for the future. In the context of what we are discussing today, there is an opportunity to have an approach in RSE in our schools that helps to shape our young people to be the best citizens for the future and would be a good help to them.
Very briefly, I say that I am enjoying the fact that more and more Members are saying that the debates are too short and they are not getting the opportunity to participate. That is good. Turning up to these debates is good. When we first had a round of Opposition days, the Chamber was empty, and we had all the debates done in about two hours instead of four hours. Suddenly, now that we have condensed it, everybody is jumping up and down saying that they do not have enough time. That is good and positive, and that is what the Opposition brings to the Chamber. It gives us an opportunity to examine issues as important as RSE and the other motions that have been presented today. I like the fact that people feel that they under a little bit of pressure for the time to do that.
We have two amendments before us. I struggle a little with the DUP amendment: not with its overall context but because it does not acknowledge that what we have at the moment is not fit for purpose. It removes the references to the academic research, which comes from the experts and not the politicians. One or two people have said that it is not for politicians to set the agenda, but this is about the experts in academia. They came up with the report. We do not think that removing the references to that is a good thing. The amendment also replaces the sense of implementing recommendations with reviewing them, which takes our foot off the pedal a bit.
We are happy to support the Alliance amendment, although we believe that all Ministers should be involved. Justice has a really important part to play, and we would love to see the Justice Minister doing more.
Before I put the Question on amendment No 1, I remind Members that the amendments are mutually exclusive. If amendment No 1 is made, I will not put the Question on amendment No 2.
Question put, That amendment No 1 be made.
The Assembly divided:
<SPAN STYLE="font-style:italic;"> Ayes 32; Noes 45
AYES
Dr Aiken, Mr Allen, Ms D Armstrong, Mr Beattie, Mr Bradley, Mr Brett, Mr Brooks, Ms Brownlee, Mr K Buchanan, Mr T Buchanan, Mr Buckley, Ms Bunting, Mr Butler, Mrs Cameron, Mr Chambers, Mr Clarke, Mr Crawford, Mrs Dodds, Mr Dunne, Mrs Erskine, Ms Forsythe, Mr Frew, Mr Gaston, Mr Givan, Mr Harvey, Mr Irwin, Mr Kingston, Mrs Little-Pengelly, Mr Lyons, Miss McIlveen, Mr Robinson, Mr Stewart
Tellers for the Ayes: Mr Brooks, Ms Brownlee
NOES
Dr Archibald, Ms K Armstrong, Mr Baker, Mr Boylan, Ms Bradshaw, Mr Carroll, Mr Delargy, Mr Dickson, Ms Dolan, Mr Donnelly, Mr Durkan, Ms Egan, Ms Ennis, Ms Ferguson, Ms Flynn, Mr Gildernew, Miss Hargey, Mr Honeyford, Ms Hunter, Mr Kelly, Ms Kimmins, Mr McAleer, Miss McAllister, Mr McCrossan, Mr McGlone, Mr McGrath, Mr McGuigan, Mr McHugh, Ms McLaughlin, Mr McMurray, Mr McReynolds, Mrs Mason, Mr Mathison, Ms Mulholland, Ms Á Murphy, Ms Ní Chuilín, Ms Nicholl, Mr O'Dowd, Mrs O'Neill, Mr O'Toole, Ms Reilly, Mr Sheehan, Ms Sheerin, Ms Sugden, Mr Tennyson
Tellers for the Noes: Ms Hunter, Mr O'Toole
Question accordingly negatived.
Question put, That amendment No 2 be made.
I have advised by the party Whips that, in accordance with Standing Order 27(1A)(b), there is agreement that we can dispense with the three-minute rule and move straight to the Division.
The Assembly divided:
<SPAN STYLE="font-style:italic;"> Ayes 52; Noes 24
AYES
Dr Aiken, Mr Allen, Dr Archibald, Ms D Armstrong, Ms K Armstrong, Mr Baker, Mr Beattie, Mr Boylan, Ms Bradshaw, Mr Butler, Mr Carroll, Mr Chambers, Mr Crawford, Mr Delargy, Mr Dickson, Ms Dolan, Mr Donnelly, Mr Durkan, Ms Egan, Ms Ennis, Ms Ferguson, Ms Flynn, Mr Gildernew, Miss Hargey, Mr Honeyford, Ms Hunter, Mr Kelly, Ms Kimmins, Mr McAleer, Miss McAllister, Mr McCrossan, Mr McGlone, Mr McGrath, Mr McGuigan, Mr McHugh, Ms McLaughlin, Mr McMurray, Mr McReynolds, Mrs Mason, Mr Mathison, Ms Mulholland, Ms Ní Chuilín, Ms Nicholl, Mr O'Dowd, Mrs O'Neill, Mr O'Toole, Ms Reilly, Mr Sheehan, Ms Sheerin, Mr Stewart, Ms Sugden, Mr Tennyson
Tellers for the Ayes: Mr Mathison, Mr McMurray
NOES
Mr Bradley, Mr Brett, Mr Brooks, Ms Brownlee, Mr K Buchanan, Mr T Buchanan, Mr Buckley, Ms Bunting, Mrs Cameron, Mr Clarke, Mrs Dodds, Mr Dunne, Mrs Erskine, Ms Forsythe, Mr Frew, Mr Gaston, Mr Givan, Mr Harvey, Mr Irwin, Mr Kingston, Mrs Little-Pengelly, Mr Lyons, Miss McIlveen, Mr Robinson
Tellers for the Noes: Mr Brooks, Ms Brownlee
Question accordingly agreed to.
Main Question, as amended, put and agreed to.
Resolved:
That this Assembly affirms the importance of relationships and sexuality education (RSE) in fostering healthy young adult relationships and mitigating violence against women and girls; acknowledges the findings of Ulster University’s healthy young adult relationships project report, which highlights that RSE is not currently fit for purpose, particularly in addressing coercive control; agrees that recommendations on the future policy direction for RSE will be best addressed following the completion of the inquiry by the Committee for Education into RSE curriculum and provision, which is due to conclude in January 2025; calls on the Minister of Education to, in the interim, outline the completed and planned actions from his Department to implement relevant recommendations from the Gillen review; and further calls on the Minister to confirm when he will produce an action plan to deliver on his Department's responsibilities under the strategic framework to end violence against women and girls.
Members, please take your ease before we move to the next item.
(Mr Deputy Speaker [Dr Aiken] in the Chair)