Integrated Advice Partnership Fund

Ministerial Statement – in the Northern Ireland Assembly at 2:45 pm on 5 November 2024.

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Photo of Carál Ní Chuilín Carál Ní Chuilín Sinn Féin 2:45, 5 November 2024

I have received notice from the Minister for Communities that he wishes to make a statement. Before I call the Minister, I remind Members that they must be concise in asking their question: it is not an opportunity for a debate or long introductions.

Photo of Gordon Lyons Gordon Lyons DUP

Good luck with that, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker.

I will make a statement on additional funding for debt advice in Northern Ireland. Problem debt can have a devastating impact on individuals and families. It is harmful to physical and mental health and can take its toll on relationships with family and friends. About 12% of adults in Northern Ireland are in need of debt advice. Only a small proportion of those people receive the advice that they need, and they often seek it too late, due to the shame and stigma that are often associated with it. It is important that we do all that we can to highlight the importance of seeking help and to ensure that our debt advice services reach as many people in need as possible. As Minister for Communities, I want to make sure that support gets to the right people at the right time.

Debt advice in Northern Ireland is funded by a Treasury levy on the financial services industry that is ring-fenced for the provision of free debt advice services. His Majesty's Treasury allocated £2·08 million to fund debt advice services in Northern Ireland in 2024-25. The funding, allocated annually by Treasury, is calculated using a formula based on population and levels of need for debt advice as calculated by the Money and Pensions Service. The Northern Ireland debt advice service is managed by Advice NI via a grant agreement that is worth £1·53 million in 2024-25. The service provides regional delivery. Provision for local, community-based debt advice is sub-granted to local front-line advice organisations across the 11 council areas and regional support. Alongside that funding initiative, the Department recently increased the number of debt advisers working for the Northern Ireland debt advice service from 30 to 34·5 in recognition of the increasingly complex debt landscape.

Due to an additional HMRC allocation and a historical miscalculation of the debt levy, Northern Ireland has an additional £1·3 million to spend between now and March 2026. Today, I am pleased to announce that I will use that money to try something new. I do not believe that the Executive or my Department have all the answers or that we have a monopoly on expertise in this area. Local government has a role to play in the provision of some of the services. Many local organisations already play an important role in the area and can help us to deliver the services that people need.

Therefore, I am pleased to announce the launch of the integrated advice partnership fund.

The new fund will complement my Department's existing £6·6 million of annual regional and local advice funding, which goes out to a range of partners, including Advice NI and community advice providers. The £1·3 million fund will be delivered in partnership with all 11 councils in Northern Ireland to improve the uptake of free, high-quality debt advice in accessible locations. It will support early intervention and the development of local solutions.

Our debt landscape is evolving, and advice providers are dealing with increasingly complex cases. Local organisations that are close to the communities that they serve are best placed to meet need. Therefore, I will provide the funding to local councils, who will work with community advice providers and community organisations, such as Christians Against Poverty. Councils are at the coalface of the community and do a fantastic job of providing front-line services to our people. Therefore, I have allowed each council flexibility in how it chooses to use the funding within the objectives that will be set by my Department. Projects will be required to demonstrate partnership working and the delivery of debt advice in community settings, including face-to-face provision. By enabling organisations to work together, we can draw on their combined expertise to deliver tailored, responsive and targeted debt advice.

The new fund reflects my commitment to using every pound to its best effect. I want to make support available to people in every corner of Northern Ireland. By working closely with councils and community organisations, we can ensure that those who face financial difficulties are able to access the support that they need when they need it.

The integrated advice partnership fund is an opportunity to ensure that debt advice is more accessible and effective than ever before. It represents another step in our efforts to provide meaningful and much-needed support to those faced with debt. I look forward to seeing the projects that will be delivered by the fund; testing different ways of working; informing future advice delivery; and, most importantly, making a difference in the lives of people right across Northern Ireland.

Photo of Daniel McCrossan Daniel McCrossan Social Democratic and Labour Party 3:15, 5 November 2024

I thank the Minister for the statement. The Minister's intentions are good with the statement, but I am sure that he will agree that, when it comes to the wider problem, £1·3 million is like lifting a pebble off a mountain. I am sure the Minister will agree that Advice NI does a great job. Surely the funding would have been better spent by investing in Advice NI and its services because it could certainly do with it. Does the Minister agree?

Photo of Gordon Lyons Gordon Lyons DUP

Always negativity from Mr McCrossan. First, it is a good news story because additional funding is going to be made available. Secondly, it is time-limited, because it is mostly due to a miscalculation of funds that the extra resource is available. However, I am frequently told by Members about the importance of regional balance and of making sure that we spread our resources right across Northern Ireland. Therefore, I am trying something new. I am using the opportunity from the miscalculation and the additional funding that has become available to tie in the important work of councils, but, even more importantly, the work of those other organisations that are already working at the coalface. We have an opportunity to test whether there are additional models for the future. I believe that it is good news and something to be welcomed. It should not be taken as a slight on anyone else. I have always said that the Department needs to try new and innovative ways of making a difference. I believe that we will do that through the allocation of the funding in this way.

Photo of Colm Gildernew Colm Gildernew Sinn Féin

I thank the Minister for the statement. I certainly welcome additional resources going into such an important area. Debt and its impact can be devastating for individuals and families. The Minister will be aware that there are very tightly controlled quality regulations for debt advice, and he has referred to the complexity of the cases. I also acknowledge the people who already work in the area. What discussions have you had with councils to assess their capacity to deliver without negatively impacting on the existing providers? How will you assess and evaluate the outcome of the new way of working?

Photo of Gordon Lyons Gordon Lyons DUP

Yes. As the Member will expect, I spoke to councils to make sure that there was an agreement in principle before we made the announcement, and that certainly is the case. There is a willingness to do it.

One of the reasons that we are doing it is to get evidence on whether the model can be taken forward in the future. Of course, we will analyse it and see what is able to be delivered. It is important that we take this opportunity to look at the other providers that are out there. For me, it is really important that we get into all parts of Northern Ireland and right into the heart of the community — health, education and church settings — to ensure that debt advice is available in the local areas that people find themselves in, because we have a problem with the uptake of that advice. That is why I am getting those providers involved. Of course, we will want to test the model and make sure that the funding is being spent well.

Photo of Deborah Erskine Deborah Erskine DUP

I thank the Minister for his statement and welcome this move. Given the cut to the winter fuel payment, we could see increased demand for debt services this year. I thank the Minister, because he is thinking about support for people on the ground. Will he clarify exactly how much Fermanagh and Omagh District Council and Mid Ulster District Council will receive? Will he consider extending support beyond 2026 if the scheme is successful? In my council areas, each year, services are stretched and so is funding. This funding will therefore be of huge support to those services.

Photo of Gordon Lyons Gordon Lyons DUP

I am grateful to the Member for acknowledging that this is about getting into every part of Northern Ireland and bringing the advice to where people are. That is why it is so important to test the model to see whether it could happen in the future. Obviously, we only have the funding until 2026, but it is useful for us to consider whether such a model would be worth taking forward when that time comes and when we can re-evaluate the resources that we have.

On resources, I expected the Member to ask about her constituency because she always asks about it. I am happy to announce that Fermanagh and Omagh District Council will receive £86,802·84 and that Mid Ulster District will receive £105,828·12.

Photo of Sian Mulholland Sian Mulholland Alliance

Thank you very much, Minister. Like the Committee Chair, I welcome any penny that goes towards debt relief and advice. You mentioned that different councils will get different funding. Will you elaborate on the distribution? Will anything be built into the criteria to ensure that help reaches the most vulnerable groups, such as those with disabilities or those in rural areas who have difficulty accessing face-to-face debt advice?

Photo of Gordon Lyons Gordon Lyons DUP

The calculation came about following an analysis of population, deprivation and adults in need. That is how the funding formula was reached. Forty per cent is based on population, 40% is based on deprivation, using the income deprivation model, and the remaining 20% is based on the results of the adults in need of debt advice survey. That is why we have different calculations for different councils. There will, of course, be criteria for the fund. There will be a requirement to deliver holistic advice in community-accessible settings such as health centres, education establishments or churches. The organisations will need to be part of a collaborative partnership and demonstrate improved outcomes for the people who access the service. They will need to include an aspect of face-to-face or in-person delivery, which is very important, and be able to share learning to inform future approaches. The projects also need to be delivered by 31 March 2026.

Photo of Andy Allen Andy Allen UUP

I am sure that the Minister, like many Members around the House, recognises that, in 2024, there is a vast array of lending options available to consumers, in particular, young people. In that vein, what engagement has he had with his colleague the Minister of Education on taking a preventative approach with younger people and providing advice and guidance in education settings?

Photo of Gordon Lyons Gordon Lyons DUP

I have not had any direct conversations with the Minister of Education on that, but discussions take place at official level. I am a big supporter of making sure that our young people are financially literate to make sure that they are aware of the perils of debt and have an understanding of spending. I am more than happy to continue that ongoing collaboration. If an intervention is needed at ministerial level between Minister Givan and me, I will be happy to do that.

Photo of Ciara Ferguson Ciara Ferguson Sinn Féin

I, too, welcome the Minister's statement and the additional £1·3 million to expand and strengthen the debt advice available across the North, particularly in partnership with our councils. We know the great work that the councils have done with the Department over the years, particularly during COVID. We know that they can come up with really innovative approaches, so I am keen to hear whether there is flexibility around the submissions to the Department for allocations. What can the funding cover, and what flexibility can councils and local communities create? I would also be interested to know how much will go to the Foyle constituency.

Photo of Carál Ní Chuilín Carál Ní Chuilín Sinn Féin

Minister, answer whatever question you like.

[Laughter.]

There were three.

Photo of Gordon Lyons Gordon Lyons DUP

I will remember as many as I can.

The whole point of doing this is that it will not be a one-size-fits-all approach. If it were, we would not need to send the service out to local councils or bring in their support. The whole point is that the service can be flexible, because the needs in, for example, Mid and East Antrim might be very different from those in Fermanagh, Omagh, Belfast or wherever. Flexibility will be built in. Councils can come up with ideas and proposals, and, as long as they fit in with what I outlined to Sian Mulholland, they will be acceptable. We want to work with people on this to make sure that we make the most difference in people's lives. That will be different depending on the area.

In the Member's constituency, I can confirm that the sum will be £114,548.04.

Photo of Brian Kingston Brian Kingston DUP

I commend the Minister for his innovative approach in establishing the integrated advice partnership fund and for recognising the local knowledge and expertise of our 11 councils, which will ensure that the additional £1·3 million from HM Treasury will be used to best effect in providing debt advice.

Minister, what formula was used to determine the breakdown of funding across the 11 councils? Perhaps the Minister has provided the detail; if he has already covered that, I would be grateful to know how much has been allocated to Belfast City Council.

Photo of Gordon Lyons Gordon Lyons DUP

That is another question that I anticipated. The funding is broken down as it is simply because I do not think that population alone takes account of the need that exists. The Member will understand that with regard to his constituency. Population is obviously important, but we have also taken into consideration deprivation and the number of adults who were estimated to be in need of debt advice.

I am happy to confirm that the sum that will be allocated to Belfast City Council for the service is £248,253.48.

Photo of Kellie Armstrong Kellie Armstrong Alliance

Minister, money is always welcome. Thank you very much for bringing the funding forward for debt advice services in particular. As you said:

"Only a small proportion of people receive the advice that they need".

If we ask all 11 councils to promote the debt advice services that they will take forward, it will take a chunk out of that money. Is there any option for the Department to promote or advertise the scheme to ensure that more people will get the benefit of that money?

Photo of Gordon Lyons Gordon Lyons DUP

I am certainly happy to see what the councils propose and what we can do centrally on promotion. Some of that can be done cheaply on our social media channels, for example. There is an expectation that part of the funding will be used to promote the services that are available. That is another reason why it is good that we are bringing in the councils, which will have their own reach, and the other organisations that are already doing some of the work. They will be in a position to promote it as well.

I hope that Members will also take the opportunity to promote the services that are available. Unfortunately, people can often bury their heads in the sand on this issue. They can try to ignore the problems, but we need to tackle them head on and get in there early to help people, because that is how we will make a difference in the longer term. I encourage Members to do that with all our constituents.

Photo of Maolíosa McHugh Maolíosa McHugh Sinn Féin 3:30, 5 November 2024

Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-Leas-Cheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a ráiteas.

[Translation: Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. I thank the Minister for his statement.]

The statement is very welcome. The Minister alluded to two organisations that provide that type of advice at present. How can the Minister ensure that those organisations in the various areas and so on will work in tandem to ensure that we maximise the benefits in every respect?

Photo of Gordon Lyons Gordon Lyons DUP

I agree with what, I think, is the Member's point, which is that we do not want people to be in conflict or competition with one another. The measures are intended to be complementary, and I hope that that continues. Certainly, the funding that is available currently for those other organisations will continue to be there. However, I thought that this was a useful way to use the resources and make sure that alternatives are available here, as well as, perhaps, reaching further than those currently established. That is what, I hope, will happen.

Photo of Trevor Clarke Trevor Clarke DUP

Like most others, I welcome the statement. Our offices are extremely busy dealing with people who are struggling. In his statement, the Minister talked about making sure that support gets to the right people at the right time, and he referenced Christians Against Poverty. I take it from the comment in which he singled out that organisation that he puts value on the work that it has been doing in the past, prior to this funding becoming available, and that the fund will enhance the work that it has been doing across all of our communities.

Photo of Gordon Lyons Gordon Lyons DUP

Absolutely. I have seen at first hand the work of Christians Against Poverty in my constituency, and I am sure that others have had similar experiences. I was delighted to be at a celebration event recently in my constituency. Christians Against Poverty celebrated 10 years of helping people. If I may, I will take a moment to give a shout-out to some people in my constituency. Wendy and Sharon in Christians Against Poverty in Larne do a fantastic job of intervening, helping and changing lives. I do not say that lightly. The people who are affected find themselves at the lowest point in their life, and we have fantastic organisations that come in, help and truly transform the situation in which those people have found themselves. It is the case that we should want to support and link up with those who have a track record of making a real difference. That is why it is so important that the councils can partner with those fantastic organisations and, as I say, make a difference to people's lives.

Photo of Jemma Dolan Jemma Dolan Sinn Féin

This is a follow-up question to the Minister's previous answer. As the Minister mentioned in his statement, debt advice organisations such as Christians Against Poverty and St Vincent de Paul already provide a fantastic debt advice service. However, they, like others, struggle with the level of demand. How will the announcement support them to deliver the service?

Photo of Gordon Lyons Gordon Lyons DUP

Councils will receive an allocation for the fund, and then it will be up to the councils to partner with the organisations that can make a difference. Some of those organisations already do fantastic work, and the link-up between those can happen. As long as they are able to deliver that holistic advice in community-accessible settings, demonstrate improved outcomes for people, have face-to-face and in-person delivery and share learning to inform future approaches, they can get that support.

The funding should not be taken as resource to help them carry out the work that they do currently; it should be additional support, but, obviously, the additional funding can help, in the round, with what they are trying to achieve. It will be of real benefit. We have mentioned a couple of organisations, but there are many others. I am not being exhaustive in what I say, because we have many organisations. Some of them operate in only one part of Northern Ireland, perhaps. That is why it is so important that we are putting this out to the councils for them to partner. There may not be organisations that can deliver on behalf of everybody in Northern Ireland, but there are organisations that can deliver in specific areas. This is a good, localised way of making sure that we can support those who are in need.

Photo of Diane Forsythe Diane Forsythe DUP

I thank the Minister for his statement. It is very welcome at this time of financial pressure across Northern Ireland, and I welcome the fact that the money can be used in this way.

I will ask two questions, if I may. I am interested to know what will be coming in the direction of Newry, Mourne and Down District Council. To follow that, I am also interested to know what the process will be when councils make their proposals and the proposals come back to the Minister for assessment. How will we ensure that the community and voluntary sector and faith-based organisations have a fair shot across each council district?

Photo of Gordon Lyons Gordon Lyons DUP

Yes, I am happy to answer those questions. First, Newry, Mourne and Down District Council will receive £134,498·16, which will go a long way towards helping those who are in need in the area.

The money will be administered by councils. I am trying to give them as much flexibility as possible. I just need to ensure that they meet what will be in the memorandum of understanding and adhere to the key points that I outlined in answers to other questions. I am not seeking to tie anybody's hands. I get that there will be unique situations in each council area, and I want to make the process as flexible as possible. The ultimate aim is not just to get the money out and to get it to organisations but to help people, and that will be done in different ways in different areas, so I want to make sure that the process is as flexible as possible.

Photo of Sinéad McLaughlin Sinéad McLaughlin Social Democratic and Labour Party

Minister, I welcome the £114,000 of additional moneys for debt advice services. I recently visited Foyle Foodbank. Food poverty, as you know, is a complex issue. It is often the result of debt incurred from unregulated lenders, many of whom are paramilitaries. Those paramilitaries act as gatekeepers in our communities. Some are even pushing women into prostitution so that they can pay their debt. How are you tackling that issue, apart from having cosy conversations with those paramilitaries? How are we tackling the causes of debt in our community so that we do not have to direct money at advice centres? We need to get to the core of the problem.

Photo of Gordon Lyons Gordon Lyons DUP

It is disappointing to hear the approach that the Member has taken when we have a good news story here. I note that she missed the previous good news story. When I announced 270 jobs in her constituency, she did not turn up to hear the announcement, but I am glad that I was able to make it. I am also glad that I will be able to deliver further support for her constituency.

The Member asked about how we tackle the issues. I agree with her that we need to tackle paramilitary activity and paramilitarism. We need to make sure that people transition. We need to make sure that there is a route for them to do that. I take the Pledge of Office seriously. It states that I should do everything that I can to support those who want to transition away from paramilitary activity. There is, of course, a role for the PSNI, and we need to take that dual approach, whereby we take action against paramilitary activity but also encourage those who are prepared to transition to move away from paramilitarism.

There is a bigger question here, is there not? Ultimately, it comes down to how we deal with deprivation and poverty in our society. That is why I will bring an anti-poverty strategy to the Executive in January. That was a commitment in the Northern Ireland Act 1998. No Minister has delivered on it yet, but, like with so many other things, I am delivering it on behalf of people in Northern Ireland and look forward to bringing forward a strategy that will prevent people from falling into poverty, help those who find themselves in poverty and make sure that there is a route for people to exit poverty. All of that is necessary, but, right now, I am helping those who find themselves in debt by trying something innovative to make sure that funding gets out to all parts of Northern Ireland, including the Foyle constituency.

Photo of Phillip Brett Phillip Brett DUP

I thank the Minister for his announcement. It is an important initiative that will be even more important this winter as a result of the decision taken by the Opposition's sister party in Parliament to cut the winter fuel allowance for pensioners.

Minister, how can we ensure that the funding that is awarded to councils will be spent fairly and equitably? Advice provision given to Belfast City Council is currently not spent fairly and equitably or on the basis of need. Compared with what is given to other parts of the city, parts of my constituency in lower north Belfast get absolutely zero funding to provide dedicated advice or to recruit debt workers. How can the Minister ensure that the communities that need support get it and that funding is not just put into certain parts of Belfast?

Photo of Gordon Lyons Gordon Lyons DUP

I am disappointed to hear that that is the case in Belfast City Council. That absolutely should not be the way that it is done. I want to make sure that it gets to everybody who needs access to it, wherever they live in Northern Ireland. People should not be discriminated against on the basis of where they are from. Having taken that comment on board, I will look at the memorandum of understanding that we have with councils to make sure that there is a fair and equitable distribution, because people will need the help.

The Member is absolutely right to highlight the fact that the cut to the winter fuel payment that was made by the Labour Government — the SDLP's sister party — has the potential to cause extra difficulty for people this winter. It is right that we stood against that and made our opposition known, but now we need to make sure that we have help for those who are in need.

Photo of Harry Harvey Harry Harvey DUP

I am pleased to hear the Minister mention faith-based organisations. Does he agree that faith-based organisations play a significant role in addressing many of the challenges that face our society today? Does he agree that the Government should work further with the sector to deliver on those issues?

Photo of Gordon Lyons Gordon Lyons DUP

I absolutely agree. We often hear about the voluntary and community sectors, but I believe that that should encompass the voluntary, community and faith sectors, because faith organisations and the Churches play a huge role in how we deal with and tackle some of the most pressing issues that face people in Northern Ireland. I will always be a voice for faith communities, which do so much work in that area and have often felt that their contribution has been ignored by government. I am more than happy to ensure that we give that recognition and that there are opportunities for faith-based organisations to become more involved.

The Member did not ask, but I am more than happy to confirm to him that Ards and North Down Borough Council will receive £105,167·52, as well as what he heard previously for Newry, Mourne and Down District Council, both of which, I am sure, he is interested in.

Photo of Gerry Carroll Gerry Carroll People Before Profit Alliance

I wonder how far the £1·3 million will go, given the prevalence of debt in our communities. Will the Minister clarify whether that money includes training for new staff? In light of his announcement, how will he ensure that people get access to independent advice, including supporting people who may not feel comfortable going to get advice in churches?

Photo of Gordon Lyons Gordon Lyons DUP

I do not see why there should be any issue with getting the impartial advice that people need. It has certainly been my experience that churches are exceptionally welcoming places. The people whom I have encountered in Church organisations are often the most concerned about the issues around poverty. I will highlight and celebrate the work that they do and not, in any way, denigrate the contribution that they make or say that they are unwelcoming places. It is important that we put that on the record.

The Member says that it is only £1·3 million and might not go that far, but it is £1·3 million that we have been able to deliver. It will make a difference in each of those council areas, and, instead of always finding something negative to say, perhaps we should take a moment to recognise that here we have some good news for people across Northern Ireland.

Photo of Declan McAleer Declan McAleer Sinn Féin

I welcome the Minister's announcement. I am sorry for missing the start of his statement, but I have read it. Will there be any opportunity to fund the work of Rural Support, which is a charity that provides a lot of debt advice and support to farming families?

Photo of Gordon Lyons Gordon Lyons DUP

One of the benefits of getting the funding out to councils is that they can identify the partners that they can work with. I am sure that there are organisations, such as the one that the Member has mentioned, that perhaps do not operate on a Northern Ireland-wide basis but operate in different areas. Of course, they can be partners with the local council to provide those services, if they can meet the criteria that I set out.

Photo of Carál Ní Chuilín Carál Ní Chuilín Sinn Féin

Thank you, Minister. That concludes questions on the statement. I invite Members to take their ease for a moment.