Public Expenditure: Draft Budget 2022-25

Ministerial Statements – in the Northern Ireland Assembly at 1:15 pm on 13 December 2021.

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Photo of Roy Beggs Roy Beggs UUP 1:15, 13 December 2021

The Speaker has received notice from the Minister of Finance that he wishes to make a statement.

Photo of Conor Murphy Conor Murphy Sinn Féin

Thank you for the opportunity to make a statement on the Executive's draft Budget for 2022-25. I provided Members with a written statement on Friday, and my statement today is accompanied by a draft Budget document. The publication of the document launches a 12-week consultation that will run to 7 March 2022.

As Members will be aware, the majority of the Executive's funding is based on the spending review outcome that was announced on 27 October. I have provided a separate statement setting out the funding that is provided by the spending review, and, while the review outcome is not as bad as feared, it did not provide enough funding to meet the pressures that the Executive face.

Some additional funding has been confirmed by the Secretary of State from the confidence-and-supply and New Decade, New Approach (NDNA) financial packages. That includes £75 million for the medical school at Magee. The profile for the medical school is not aligned to the anticipated expenditure profile, and discussions will take place with Treasury on ensuring the most appropriate profile going forward. However, the draft Budget must reflect the profile as set out by the Secretary of State. At the time of the NDNA agreement, there were just under 4,000 students at Magee. Ulster University has recently indicated that it is actively making changes to increase the numbers to 6,000 over the period covered by the Budget. The Executive remain committed to increasing student places to 10,000, as outlined in 'New Decade, New Approach', including providing the necessary funding.

Unfortunately, the Secretary of State did not confirm the funding requested in relation to the protocol or the funding due to be provided under confidence and supply in 2022-23 for mental health and severe deprivation. We anticipate that funding being confirmed in-year.

I turn to regional rates. The COVID pandemic and the cost of living crisis create significant financial pressures on businesses and households. Therefore, the Executive have agreed that the domestic and non-domestic regional rate will be frozen over the Budget period. A further £50 million has been set aside to provide rates support for businesses. Legislation is being enacted that removes the ability of businesses to appeal their NAV on the grounds of COVID-19. Over the last two years, companies here were instead compensated for the impact of COVID-19 through rates holidays and grants. Next year, in recognition that all sectors are set to lose their right to appeal, all businesses, with the exception of larger food stores and utilities, will receive a one-month rates holiday. As some sectors have been harder hit by the pandemic, retail, tourism and hospitality, leisure, childcare and airports will receive a total of three months' rates relief. In 2023, a revaluation that will take into account the impact of COVID-19 will come into effect. This provides a much more comprehensive package of support to businesses than the appeal mechanism, which was not designed for a general pandemic.

The Executive have also agreed to consult on increasing the rates liability of vacant properties from 50% to 75% and removing the domestic rates cap of £400,000. Having been delayed by the pandemic, a consultation will allow those policies to be delivered early in the new mandate.

I turn to departmental allocations. Even before the pandemic struck, the returning Executive agreed that health would be their top priority. That commitment was confirmed as discussions began on agreeing the draft Budget. Therefore, the focus of the draft Budget has very much been on providing significant additional resources for transforming our health service and reducing waiting lists on a permanent basis. With the funding provided by the Chancellor's spending review falling short of what was needed to fund the Executive's priorities, prioritising our health service means a proposal for other Departments to contribute 2% of their opening baseline. That contribution would provide an additional £523 million over the three years, which would form part of an overall general allocation of £1·9 billion. That could be used at the Health Minister's discretion to help to address the significant funding pressures identified. On top of that, the draft Budget would provide £120 million, £182·4 million and £255·3 million over the three-year Budget to meet in full the Health Minister's bids for elective care, cancer and mental health rebuild strategies. It is also proposed that the transformation funding provided under New Decade, New Approach of £147 million over the three years be allocated in its entirety to Health.

While the Barnett consequentials are unhypothecated and may therefore be spent at the Executive's discretion, it is worth highlighting that the proposed draft Budget settlement provides the Department of Health with a budget allocation that is significantly in excess of the funding received from the Barnett consequential on health and related allocation in the spending review. This year, the opening budget for Health was £6·452 billion. Under the draft Budget next year, it will be £6·782 billion. Health will also receive the first £50 million available in the 2022-23 monitoring round. In 2023-24, the budget will be £6·947 billion, and, in 2024-25, it will be £7·109 billion. It will be important for the Health Minister to provide more detail on how that funding will be used as part of the draft Budget consultation.

Of course, the major challenges in health and social care remain, and the Health Department could spend more. However, the draft Budget strikes a balance between prioritising health and protecting other public services. That is a difficult trade-off, but it is the financial reality that must be faced up to.

I turn to funding for other priorities and pressures. In setting out the departmental budgets for consultation, the underpinning assumption has been that Departments will find the proposed 2% reduction required to provide additional funding for health from efficiencies in existing budgets. That is challenging, but, in a three-year Budget, it creates opportunities to plan better and identify genuine efficiency savings.

A number of allocations for specific departmental strategic issues have been proposed in the draft Budget. They include the continuation of welfare reform mitigations, with proposed allocations of £128·5 million over three years, and the Shared Future programme providing £36 million over three years. Funding is also proposed for victims and survivors of historical institutional abuse and victims' pensions. We remain in dispute with the British Government over the funding of the latter. However, it is important that that dispute does not impact on the delivery of payments to victims. Funding is therefore included in the draft Budget. The Executive have also agreed a number of recommendations that have arisen out of the work of the truth recovery design panel on mother-and-baby institutions, Magdalene laundries and other workhouses. Funding to take those forward has also been provided to the Executive Office as part of the draft Budget. In total, it is proposed that over £419 million be provided to the Executive Office for the three schemes over the Budget period.

The draft Budget proposals also include additional allocations that will be ring-fenced for specific purposes. Full details are provided in my written statement. However, over the Budget period, those include £66 million for holiday hunger, £24 million for Supporting People, £37 million for Northern Ireland Water's price control determination and over £44 million for PSNI staffing. As well as those ring-fenced allocations under the draft Budget, Departments will receive general allocations that, along with their baseline funding, may be spent at the discretion of Ministers. The effect of those ring-fenced and general allocations is that no Department faces a reduction on its opening baseline position. However, they will be worse off than if funding not been diverted to Health. Tables summarising that proposed resource department expenditure limit (DEL) outcome are attached at annex A in the tables accompanying the statement. Given the range of pressures facing Departments and the fact that those cannot be funded in full, it would be for Ministers to allocate budgets on the basis of their priorities, taking into account the commitments set out in 'New Decade, New Approach'.

My written statement set out the capital funding that is available to the Executive. As Members may recall, departmental capital allocations are determined from a zero baseline. Given the need to maximise investment, the Executive have also agreed that borrowing be accessed to increase departmental capital allocations. However, we must also be conscious that the funding needed to compete projects that have commenced should also be affordable. Therefore, the proposal is not to access the full amount of borrowing available in the first two years. The proposed draft Budget capital outcome would access reinvestment and reform initiative (RRI) borrowing of £140 million, £194 million and £200 million over the three years.

The draft Budget also sees the first allocation of funding for city and growth deals, with some £316 million being allocated over the Budget period. As part of their deliberations on the draft Budget, the Executive have agreed the allocation of the first tranche of funding from their city and growth deals complementary fund. The allocations agreed are set out in the table provided at annex B. There will be a further opportunity for city and growth deals to submit bids as part of the second tranche of that funding.

As Members will be aware, a number of flagship capital projects were agreed by the previous Executive. The draft Budget proposals honour the commitment to provide funding for those projects, which include regional stadia projects, the mothers and children's hospital, the Fire and Rescue Service training centre, the A5, the A6 and the Belfast transport hub. Given the importance of green growth and sustainability, particularly the move towards net zero, the draft Budget proposes allocations of £304 million of capital for that purpose. While those will not be ring-fenced, Departments can provide more detail on the green growth projects that they intend to take forward as part of their draft Budget consultations.

With the exception of ring-fenced funding, such as for city and growth deals and flagship projects, Departments will be provided with proposed capital funding envelopes within which Ministers may fund their priorities. Again, it is important that NDNA commitments are progressed as much as possible. Details of the proposed capital outcome provided for each Department under the draft Budget is set out at annex C in the tables accompanying the statement.

The spending review also provided £162·8 million, £66·4 million and £62·2 million of financial transactions capital (FTC) over the Budget period. That may be used only for loans to or equity investment in private-sector bodies. It is proposed that, over the Budget period, £159 million be provided to the Department for Communities for housing, with £24·9 million going to the Department for the Economy. There will be £50 million provided to the investment fund in 2022-23. Those proposed allocations will leave £57 million available for allocation in 2022-23.

As Members will know, amendments made to the NI Act 1998 following the Fresh Start Agreement require me to set out how the Executive's Budget reconciles to the funding provided by Treasury. I provided a statement to the Assembly on 4 November that set out the funding notified by the Secretary of State. The tables at annex D show how the departmental allocations set out in the draft Budget reconcile to those amounts.

The move from single-year Budgets to a three-year Budget provides an opportunity to plan, reform and improve health services. Nevertheless, the reality is that the funding available does not allow us to do everything that we wish to do. While no Department faces a cash reduction against its opening baseline, they are undoubtedly worse off than they would have been had Health not been prioritised. Managing within the proposed draft Budget position will provide significant challenges for all Departments, including mine. I will continue to work with other Ministers to find solutions to those challenges, but the reality is that more money for other public services means less money for health. As an Executive, we have publicly committed to making health our top priority. The draft Budget honours that commitment.

Photo of Steve Aiken Steve Aiken UUP 1:30, 13 December 2021

I thank the Minister for his oral and written statement and for meeting me and the Deputy Chairperson this morning to discuss the main points of the draft Budget.

The Committee will certainly welcome a three-year Budget when it is agreed and the vital clarity that will be provided on capital and resource and, indeed, key projects including the vital health transformation, city deals and other Executive commitments. The Committee will also welcome the prospect of a further three-month rates holiday for the hard-pressed businesses that recently lobbied the Committee, as well as what looks like a proposed increase in funding for PSNI staffing and the interim arrangements for the victims' pension scheme.

Will the Minister clarify whether the rates holiday is contingent on the passage of the Non-domestic Rates Valuations (Coronavirus) Bill? Will the Minister also clarify what will happen to waiting lists and overall health transformation if other Departments and parties decline to provide additional funding from their budgets? Finally, RRI spending has dropped considerably during the current financial year. Will the Minister explain the reasoning behind the increase in RRI spending to £200 million in the draft Budget in the last year of the spending review period, as it seems to be profiled?

Photo of Conor Murphy Conor Murphy Sinn Féin

I thank the Committee Chair for his questions and observations. I look forward to working with the Committee over the consultation period and ensuring that it has the opportunity to give its view on the draft proposals.

With regard to rates bills, if the legislation were not passed at Westminster, the Barnett consequential would not arise from that and, in effect, that would be lost. I have not received any sense that the legislation will not pass at Westminster. We expect it to pass fairly soon and that the consequential will become available to us.

The difficult and core choice at the centre of the Budget proposal is that, if we are trying to get to grips with a year-on-year increase in health spending over the three years to get the necessary reforms and tackle some of the big issues, this is the opportunity to do that. In a finite Budget where we have not got all that we wanted in order to do all the things that we wanted to do across every area of public service, that means that some tough choices have had to be made to divert funding to Health. If the final outcome is that the Executive change their view on that or the Assembly changes its view and decides not to do that, Health will not have the money necessary for the transformation.

We have had many conversations about RRI spending. The Member knows the approach is that we are not maximising the potential of our RRI spend, particularly in a three-year Budget that is challenged in the latter years; capital budgets are very challenged in year 2 and particularly year 3. We need to access any additional opportunities that we have and be as imaginative and flexible as possible, and that is why we intend to press Departments to access the full amount of RRI borrowing by year 3.

Photo of Colm Gildernew Colm Gildernew Sinn Féin

I thank the Minister for his statement. I very much welcome the prioritisation that the Department of Health has received in the draft Budget.

Minister, as you said in your conclusion, the opportunity to plan, reform and improve public services is nowhere more relevant than it is for Health. A 10% increase in the Department's resource budget is a significant allocation. Can you outline how that will impact on the current difficulties that the health and social care system faces?

Photo of Conor Murphy Conor Murphy Sinn Féin

To tackle the current difficulties, the Department of Health presented us, some time back, with costed propositions for dealing with elective care in order to reduce waiting lists and to deal with cancer services, which have become ever more acute since the pandemic hit, and the strategy for tackling mental health issues. Those propositions will be funded in full by ensuring that the Department of Health has that money going forward. They will also make sure that the money provided for transformation is given to Health in full over the three-year period and that there is a significant amount of other money to be spent at the Health Minister's discretion.

The Executive agreed a number of meetings back that the Health Minister will be asked to provide, over the 12-week consultation period, a step-by-step update on the spending, what it will achieve and what the outcomes will be so that, when it comes to the vote on the final Budget, the Executive will have a very clear picture of what is intended to be transformed over the three years, of how the funding for acute pressures around waiting lists, cancer treatment and mental health treatment will be spent and of the staging points at which that will be achieved over the period. We are looking for a very clear plan from the Department of Health. As I said, we have already agreed that that will be done over the 12-week consultation period. When it comes to the final Budget, the Executive will therefore have a very clear picture.

Photo of Keith Buchanan Keith Buchanan DUP

I thank the Minister for meeting the Chairperson of the Committee for Finance and me this morning. I, too, welcome the additional support for businesses through the additional three-month rates holiday, as well as the one-month rates holiday for other businesses.

We are talking about the antecedent date for the revaluation being 1 October 2021. Does that allow for a broad enough snapshot in time in order to get a true reflection of the difficulties that businesses are experiencing, bearing in mind that, by picking 1 October, we are picking a period in time. Can we do anything to create a wider snapshot to assist businesses that shows the true difficulties that they are experiencing?

Photo of Conor Murphy Conor Murphy Sinn Féin

The revaluation always operates on the basis that a date is picked. You could argue for any date in this past year to demonstrate what the experience has been, but 1 October takes into account the experience of the pandemic and the period leading up to that date. Even with the new variant and an increase in concern, we hope that the worst of the lockdown situations that businesses have experienced are well behind us. We repeat the message for everyone to get the vaccine and the booster and to follow the guidance so that we do not end up in a lockdown situation. That date should be able to capture the pandemic experience for businesses. When it comes to the publication of the revaluation lists in 2023, we will then have an assessment that goes back over the whole period.

Photo of Matthew O'Toole Matthew O'Toole Social Democratic and Labour Party

Minister, I, too, welcome the prioritisation of funding for the Department of Health. My party and I have consistently said that we wanted to see Health prioritised. We also want to see a detailed plan for how that prioritised money is going to be spent.

May I ask about the decision made not to prioritise any other Departments out of the 2%? If we accept that Health was going to be prioritised, there was a second choice to make a 2% cut across the board. What prioritisation exercise did your Department do before deciding simply to apply a salami-sliced 2% cut to every other Department in the absence of a Programme for Government?

Photo of Conor Murphy Conor Murphy Sinn Féin

A Programme for Government is not something that I can deliver as part of the Budget. I have a legislative requirement to do the Budget within a certain time frame. Ideally, the two documents would sit beside each other, but I still have a requirement to go ahead with the Budget.

We were in conversations with Departments from the summertime about an across-the-board contribution to the Department of Health. We teased out a number of scenarios, including a 4% and an 8% contribution. From dialogue between officials, the feeling was that 4% or 8% was much too serious a challenge for Departments to meet. Once you move away from the chosen proposition to a 2% reduction for some Departments, a 4% or 6% for others and perhaps no reduction for others, you increase the reduction in some Departments and decrease it in others.

Certainly, there was a clear sense that a level of reduction higher than 2% in any of the Departments would prove to be very significantly challenging. It is very challenging to achieve 2% — we accept that — never mind impose a higher level on some other Departments.

That is where the idea for a reduction across the board came from. It followed a lengthy period of consultation and dialogue with Departments, and we want to ensure that the balance is struck. I have always said that it is a balance, because we have an awful lot of public services that we want to deliver, but we do not have the resources available to do all that we want to do. We want to prioritise health, and we were very clear about that. We talked about a range of other areas of priority, such as green growth and skills. Of course, Departments have discretion to prioritise those areas themselves and to prioritise them across Departments, if that is appropriate. That is where we got to in the discussion in relation to that and to the recognition that, for some Departments, a reduction of more than 2% would prove to be beyond their means to deal with. To try to take nothing from some Departments and to increase the burden on others would have been too challenging.

Photo of Andrew Muir Andrew Muir Alliance

I thank the Minister for coming to the House in relation to the draft Budget. I think that we will all agree that we should prioritise Health, but my party has concerns with what has been presented and the fact that it is not aligned with the Programme for Government and cross-cutting, outcome-based approaches. When it comes to the draft Budget, what attempts will be made to ensure that we tackle both the causes and symptoms of ill health?

Photo of Conor Murphy Conor Murphy Sinn Féin

The causes and symptoms of ill health are beyond the Health Department, so we have a responsibility to ensure that other Departments prioritise those. The funding for Health is not the entirety of the Executive's commitment to better health for our population. Obviously, a range of Departments have a contribution to make, and we need to ensure that everyone is playing their part in that regard.

While there is a significant degree of discretion within departmental budgets, we have said to people that Health was the number-one priority for the Executive, but other areas, such as skills, green growth, recovery, sustainability and tackling inequalities that have health outcomes attached to them, are priorities for the Executive. I imagine that any funding that might become available later on, as we have suggested, would be regarded as being for the likes of housing and other areas that contribute to good health. I am sure that, if funding becomes available, particularly in relation to monitoring rounds, the Executive will recognise that there is a range of other priorities and that it is not simply the Health Department that contributes to good health.

Photo of Maolíosa McHugh Maolíosa McHugh Sinn Féin

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht a ráitis go dtí seo. Minister, too many lives have been lost on the A5 in my constituency of West Tyrone. Last week, we had another tragic accident on the A5. I offer my deepest sympathies to the immediate and wider Harkin family. What provision does the draft Budget contain for major works on the A5, which are badly needed?

Photo of Conor Murphy Conor Murphy Sinn Féin

In the New Decade, New Approach agreement, the Irish Government reaffirmed their £75 million commitment to the A5 project. The Department for Infrastructure's draft budget for 2022-25 proposes capital allocations for the A5 of £7·4 million, £25·3 million and £80·3 million over the three years. The Dublin Government's contributions are shown as financing that item and reflect income of £7·4 million, £25 million and £25 million that is anticipated in 2022-25.

I recognise the Member's point about the safety of that road and the loss of life that has been consistently experienced along it. I am very confident that, with that funding in place, despite the hurdles that are there, if the Infrastructure Minister makes a bid for the funding of that project, the funding will be there for it, although, obviously, the Department for Infrastructure will have to overcome any hurdles that remain.

Photo of Pam Cameron Pam Cameron DUP

I thank the Finance Minister for his statement to the House. I note that he talked about the importance of the Health Minister when it comes to the ability to provide more detail in how the uplift in health funding will be used as part of the draft Budget consultation. Would it not have been more appropriate and transparent for that plan to have been brought to the Executive and agreed prior to the consultation being published? What mitigations are in place to ensure that that funding contributes to the much-needed reform of our health service, along with workforce planning, rather than plugging any gaps or allowing money to disappear down a black hole?

Photo of Conor Murphy Conor Murphy Sinn Féin 1:45, 13 December 2021

The Budget process is, and always has been, that the Executive agree a draft Budget to go out for consultation, but that is not the final agreement. In our discussions on health, when the proposition was first put forward to give this level of additional funding and the impact that it would have on other Departments, people rightly wanted to see how that would do what we wanted it to do in the time ahead, and that, in three years' time, an Executive would not be having the same discussions. So there was an undertaking to provide that over the 12-week consultation period.

It is quite often that matters are not finalised as part of the draft Budget. That is what the period of consultation is for. The Executive can take the Budget back and change things as a consequence of the consultation. So there is no final agreement, and there never was intended be, nor is there ever, when it comes to producing a draft Budget. The final agreement comes when it comes back to the Executive to decide what Budget they intend to put before the Assembly for legislation.

It is in that period of time that the Health Department has agreed to bring forward the proposition for how that money will be spent and how it is intended to do what we intend it to do. It is also the staging post by which the incoming Executive can measure that over the next three years. They already have costed and funded plans in relation to elective care, cancer strategies and mental health strategies, so those are all there. The only remaining piece is around transformation and how that money will be spent. There is nothing unusual in an Executive agreeing a draft Budget and to have more material looked at. I will be having dialogue with other Ministers over the next 12 weeks, and there will, perhaps, be some additional changes to come before the final stage. That is the purpose of consultation.

Photo of Jemma Dolan Jemma Dolan Sinn Féin

I thank the Minister for his statement. I welcome last week's announcement by the Communities Minister, Deirdre Hargey, of her plan to build 100,000 homes over the next 15 years. Will the three-year Budget provide the funding that will enable that major social housing programme to commence?

Photo of Conor Murphy Conor Murphy Sinn Féin

Yes, it is budgeted in. The Communities Minister has announced a very ambitious plan, and we want to ensure that that is the case. That is why, as part of this, I have recommended that the Executive should consider prioritising. In year 3, when our capital budget is most challenged for everyone, there is always a return of capital, because there are always projects that do not go ahead. There is a very strong anticipation of more capital coming into the system in year 3, and there should be a priority around housing in order to make sure that the Department for Communities, whoever the Minister may be at that stage, has the funding to continue on. That plan for 100,000 houses is over 16 years. This is the first three years, and we want to make sure that it gets off on target and on schedule in the early years of that particular strategy.

Photo of Trevor Clarke Trevor Clarke DUP

Before I ask my question, I will put it on record that I am a member of the Northern Ireland Policing Board.

I appreciate that there are difficulties in setting a Budget, given the financial constraints on the Executive and their commitment to supporting Health. There is a welcome line in the statement in relation to confidence and supply and a financial package whereby we get additional funding. However, having read the statement, my concern is that there is no additional support to fulfil one of those commitments in relation to the PSNI complement of 7,500. The PSNI is currently aiming for a complement of 7,100 but, by any indication that we have had from the Policing Board, this Budget will reduce that figure. How do you, Minister, square the circle in relation to the commitments that your party and others signed up to in NDNA, one of the premises that brought us back here? This Budget will fall short of fulfilling the complement of 7,500 police officers.

Photo of Conor Murphy Conor Murphy Sinn Féin

I have stressed to all Ministers that we should be striving to deliver on every NDNA commitment. We have had the two-year interruption of the pandemic, but the NDNA commitments still stand, and I still want to see Departments delivering them. I have had a number of conversations with the Justice Minister about that particular commitment in relation to policing. We will try to give whatever support we can. I have no doubt that I will have more conversations with the Justice Minister between now and the final approval of the Budget. There is, however, a significant degree of discretion in each departmental allocation, and the papers for all of those departmental propositions will be produced alongside a draft Budget to go out for consultation. I have emphasised that Ministers should prioritise NDNA commitments within their own allocations, and I expect that the Justice Minister will do so.

Photo of Pat Catney Pat Catney Social Democratic and Labour Party

Thank you, Minister. Minister, can you explain the rationale for not ring-fencing the green growth fund? Surely the importance of the issue, and the huge amount of work required to meet our net zero targets, would warrant the ring-fencing of that fund, bearing in mind that we said that health was a priority, and I am sure of the 2%. What work has your Department done in order to find that 2% from Departments? This is a missed opportunity for green growth.

Photo of Conor Murphy Conor Murphy Sinn Féin

We actually did ring-fence the green growth money in an earlier version of the draft Budget. It was as a result of a request from the Departments involved to have more flexibility over the three years to manage their budgets that we took the ring-fencing off it. I was quite happy to ring-fence that and to ensure that green growth is and continues to be a priority within the Executive, but we also have to give Departments the flexibility to manage their budgets over the three-year period, and some asked for the ring-fencing to be removed. That does not dilute in any way the commitment to green growth across a range of Departments.

Photo of Mike Nesbitt Mike Nesbitt UUP

Let me start as positively as possible. I welcome the achievement of a multi-year draft Budget. I welcome the commitment to the health service, and I welcome the £44 million-plus to the Police Service of Northern Ireland for staffing. I declare an interest as a member of the Policing Board. However, the police have told me that, over the three-year period, to achieve the NDNA commitment to have 7,500 officers, the cost would be £74·6 million, which is £30·2 million less than is being allocated in your additional funding. Therefore, the questions to the Minister are these: have you had any discussions about the implications for the headcount of the PSNI, and do you know how many additional officers the £44·4 million that you are allocating will achieve?

Photo of Conor Murphy Conor Murphy Sinn Féin

It will be a matter for the Department of Justice to work out with the Policing Board what additional staff will be achieved by that. I do not have that detail to hand. I have had many discussions with the Justice Minister about meeting that particular NDNA commitment. The proposition at the core of this, which is to give the additional allocation to Health to tackle what everyone around here has long said is our number-one, comes with additional pressure on every Department, including my Department of Finance. When there are priorities and commitments that need to be met, it is our responsibility to look to our own Departments to see how we can prioritise those against other spending in our own Departments, because this is, as the Member understands, a finite Budget. We cannot give additionally to Health and find it from somewhere else; it has to come from other Departments.

I have offered and am absolutely committed to engaging with Ministers over this 12-week period to try to find ways to meet the challenges that they have, and we will give every assistance that we can. Some of the issues around ring-fencing came from those engagements over the last number of weeks. I am quite committed to doing that, but it will be up to each Department to prioritise commitments, should they be NDNA or other commitments, within its allocation.

Photo of Nicola Brogan Nicola Brogan Sinn Féin

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire fosta. Thank you, Minister, for your statement. I welcome your announcement that over £65 million will be ring-fenced to tackle holiday hunger. A light has been shone on the issue during the pandemic, and that funding will provide vital support to tens of thousands of families. Will the Minister please confirm that the funding is intended to support children and their families during all school holiday periods throughout the school year and not just during summer holidays?

Photo of Conor Murphy Conor Murphy Sinn Féin

The contribution is on the basis of a bid from the Department of Education. That allocation was on the assumption that payments should be the same as the average cost to provide a free school meal in that setting, which is £2·70 per child. The draft Budget includes a specific allocation of £22·1 million a year for holiday hunger. The Education Minister, I think, has to carry out an economic appraisal to determine the appropriate value of grants to provide to families rather than relying on the long-term cost of providing meals in the school setting.

We recognise that it is a challenging issue. It is one of a number of pressing social issues that the pandemic brought to the fore. We have allocated funding specifically for it, and we will look to the Department of Education to work through the detail of that to make sure that all children who need that support are provided with it for the time that they need it.

Photo of Peter Weir Peter Weir DUP

Will the Finance Minister clarify whether, apart from his party colleagues and the Health Minister, any other Minister has signalled support for the content of the Budget as opposed to simply supporting it going out to consultation?

Photo of Conor Murphy Conor Murphy Sinn Féin

As a former member of the Executive, the Member should know that the Budget process is such that the draft Budget is put out for public consultation and that no Minister has to put their hand up to say yea or nay until the final Budget is produced before it goes into the Assembly. Asking people to do a final yea or nay on the draft Budget is not a process that we have ever followed. The Executive — the majority of Ministers, with the exception of those from your party — were content for the Budget to go out to public consultation. Everyone recognises that the purpose of having a consultation is to create space for changes to be made between now and the final Budget stage, if that is required. Consultation will continue with other Ministers over that period as well, so the sense that this was a final vote on the Budget is misleading, perhaps deliberately so. It was always misleading, because everybody who has been on the Executive knows that you agree to put the Budget out for consultation and that you only have a final vote on it at the end before we bring it to the Assembly.

Photo of Chris Lyttle Chris Lyttle Alliance

How will an unreformed education system in financial crisis be able to function under a proposed 2% budget reduction? Why does this Budget make no clear commitment to honour the subregional football stadia fund, which is overdue from 2015?

Photo of Conor Murphy Conor Murphy Sinn Féin

The latter point is, I understand, part of the Department for Communities' bid, and it is up to that Department to satisfy that. I have had that raised with me in recent times, and I understand that the Communities Minister is very clear about fulfilling the commitment to subregional stadia.

As I said, we recognised at the outset of this process that the proposition to increase funding for Health was going to be very challenging for all Departments, particularly, I expect, for Education. If we had the money that we need to prioritise all the things that we need to do, I am sure that Education would have come a close second after Health. In financial allocations, Education has always come in second place to Health. We will look to continue to support the very clear pressures in the education system over the course of the three years, but we cannot make a proposition to prioritise one area without every other area having to make a contribution to that. That creates additional stresses and pressures, and I have heard about all those from various Ministers over the last number of weeks. However, those are the choices that you have to make when you have a finite Budget and you want to give priority to a specific area. The additional funding is not just for the health of the population, which is important, but there is a clear recognition that, if we do not make the changes that we need in the health system, the costs will continue to grow year-on-year, which will have a longer-term impact on the budgets of all other public services.

Photo of Roy Beggs Roy Beggs UUP

Members, Question Time is due to commence at 2.00 pm. I propose, therefore, that Members take their ease for a few moments to allow the Assembly to be organised for that. After Question Time, we will return to questions to the Minister of Finance on his statement.

The business stood suspended.

(Mr Speaker in the Chair)