The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (Amendment No. 13) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2020

Executive Committee Business – in the Northern Ireland Assembly at 12:00 pm on 8 December 2020.

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Photo of Christopher Stalford Christopher Stalford DUP 12:00, 8 December 2020

The next items of business are motions to approve five statutory rules, all of which relate to the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) Regulations. There will be a single debate on all five motions. The Minister will move the first motion and commence the debate on all the motions listed in the Order Paper. When all who wish to speak have done so, I shall put the Question on the first motion. The second motion will then be read into the record, and I will call the Minister to move it. The Question will then be put on that motion. That process will be repeated for each of the remaining statutory rules. If that is clear, we shall proceed on that basis.

Photo of Naomi Long Naomi Long Alliance

I beg to move

That the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (Amendment No. 13) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2020 be approved.

The following motions stood in the Order Paper:

That the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of Face Coverings) (Amendment No. 4) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2020 be approved. — [Mrs Long (The Minister of Justice).]

That the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (Amendment No. 14) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2020 be approved. — [Mrs Long (The Minister of Justice).]

That the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (Amendment No. 15) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2020 be approved. — [Mrs Long (The Minister of Justice).]

That the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (Amendment No. 16) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2020 be approved. — [Mrs Long (The Minister of Justice).]

Photo of Christopher Stalford Christopher Stalford DUP

The Business Committee has agreed that there should be no time limit on this debate.

Photo of Naomi Long Naomi Long Alliance

I am asking the Assembly to confirm five sets of regulations now made. These Department of Health regulations introduce amendments to the public health protection regulations, which are made and amended as necessary to give effect to the Executive's decisions. I have, however, agreed to lead the debate for two reasons. First, although all the regulations are prepared by the Department of Health, in the case of the first two sets of amendment regulations, which are concerned with the increase of fines and penalties, my Department worked in collaboration with Department of Health officials. Colleagues will recall the Executive's agreement to the proposals that I brought forward in October to increase fines and penalties and to introduce a number of new offences on foot of the rapid review of fines and penalties requested by the strategic compliance group. That group was set up earlier this year by the Executive to oversee arrangements for encouraging compliance with public health restrictions. Given my Department's role, it was therefore a natural step for me to lead this debate. Secondly, as my officials were preparing for the debate, three more sets of amendment regulations to give effect to the Executive's decisions on public health restrictions were made, so I further agreed to lead the debate on those in the interests of supporting the Health Minister and the Executive Office in a collaborative way.

The first set of regulations, the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (Amendment No. 13) Regulations, deals with a number of changes made to the main public health regulations, commonly referred to as the (No. 2) regulations, on offences and penalties that apply when the restrictions are breached. The second set of regulations, the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of Face Coverings) (Amendment No. 4) Regulations, increases the level of fixed penalties for failure to wear a face covering in settings prescribed by the coronavirus regulations.

Both sets of regulations came into effect at 5.30 pm on 12 November.

The third set of regulations, the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (Amendment No. 14) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2020, provide councils with the powers to enforce the No. 2 regulations, including on premises improvement notices. The regulations came into effect at 4.00 pm on 13 November.

The fourth set of regulations, the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (Amendment No. 15) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2020, deal with the extension of the restrictions that were initially introduced on 16 October and the limited relaxation of those restrictions for coffee shops, close-contact services and off-sales. The regulations came into effect at 6.30 pm on 13 November.

The fifth and final set of regulations, the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (Amendment No. 16) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2020, ensure that unlicensed premises that reopened on 20 November were restricted to no more than six people per table from no more than two households. The regulations came into effect at 8.00 pm on 19 November.

I will now set out, in detail and in turn, each of the regulations.

The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (Amendment No. 13) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2020, SR 2020/250, were signed at 5.30 pm on 12 November and laid before the Assembly at 9.30 am on 13 November. They increased the previous fines and penalties and introduced new offences. The fixed penalty that previously started at £60 was replaced by a single fixed penalty of £200, or £100 if paid within 14 days of issue. That penalty applies to breaches of restrictions on gatherings in public or private places that remain punishable on conviction by a fine of up to £5,000. The regulations also provide that recipients of a £200 fixed penalty cannot be issued with another for the same offence. The option of summary prosecution may be used instead.

The offences of not closing a business as required or breaching the early closing requirements for hospitality will be punishable on conviction by a fine of up to £10,000 or will attract a fixed penalty starting at £1,000, which can be increased for subsequent breaches up to a maximum of £10,000.

A new offence of not implementing measures to maintain social distancing in retail and hospitality settings will be punishable on conviction by a fine of up to £10,000 or a fixed penalty starting at £1,000, which can be increased for subsequent breaches up to a maximum of £10,000.

A new offence of organising or participating in a large gathering or unlicensed musical event, with large defined as "30 or more persons", will carry the new higher-level penalty for organisers. That is punishable on conviction by a fine of up to £10,000 or a fixed penalty starting at £1,000 and increasing to a maximum of £10,000 for further breaches. A new lower penalty for participants is punishable on conviction by a fine of up to £5,000 or a fixed penalty of £200. The fixed penalty of £200 will be reduced to £100 if paid within 14 days of issue.

The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of Face Coverings) (Amendment No. 4) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2020, SR 2020/253, were signed at 5.30 pm on 12 November and laid before the Assembly at 9.00 am on 13 November. They increase the penalties for failing to comply with the health protection regulations on the wearing of face coverings. The fixed penalty that previously started at £60 was replaced by a fixed penalty of £200, which will be reduced to £100 if paid within 14 days. That penalty, which remains punishable on conviction by a fine of up to £5,000, applies to breaches of restrictions on the wearing of face coverings in settings prescribed by the regulations. As before, the regulations provide that recipients of £200 fixed penalties cannot be issued with another for the same offence.

The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (Amendment No. 14) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2020, SR2020/255, were signed at 4.00 pm on 13 November and laid before the Assembly at 5.00 pm on 13 November.

Those regulations provide district councils with the power to designate persons to enforce the No 2 regulations, to issue a premises improvement notice where those who are responsible for the premises are in breach of the No 2 regulations, and to specify a time limit within which the measures that are required must be taken, which must not be less than 48 hours from the time that the notice is issued.

SR 2020/256, the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (Amendment No. 15) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2020, were signed by the Department of Health at 6.30 pm on 13 November and laid before the Assembly at 9.00 am on 16 November. Those regulations deal with the extension of the restrictions that were initially introduced on 16 October and the limited relaxation of those restrictions in respect of coffee shops, close-contact services and off-sales. They allowed the reopening, under certain conditions, of unlicensed food and drink businesses, cafes and coffee shops mostly, which were allowed to reopen from 20 November, with opening hours limited from 5.00 am to 8.00 pm.

The regulations allowed the reopening, from 20 November, of the close-contact services sector, including hairdressing, tattoo parlours, holistic therapies and driving instruction. As a condition of that reopening, those businesses were required to operate by appointment only and were required to collect and retain for a period the names and contact telephone numbers of customers for contact-tracing purposes.

Finally, the regulations removed a restriction that had previously been placed on pubs and bars preventing them from selling alcohol for consumption off the premises. Although many bars and pubs have an off-licence, the regulations had sought to prevent them selling alcohol for consumption off the premises during that time. The lifting of that restriction was accompanied by the requirement that they sold drink only in the original sealed container so that bars were not selling glasses of alcohol to customers on the street.

SR 2020/276, the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (Amendment No. 16) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2020, were signed at 8.00 pm on 19 November and laid in the Assembly at 9.00 am on 20 November 2020. Those regulations ensure that the unlicensed premises that reopened on 20 November were governed by a rule to restrict numbers of customers to no more than six per table from no more than two households.

Those five sets of amendments are designed to encourage adherence to the restrictions and to deter any breach of them. They complement the basic but critical and consistent public health message: wash your hands, keep your distance, and wear a face covering.

Photo of Paul Givan Paul Givan DUP

I am pleased to speak on behalf of the Committee for Justice in the debate. The Committee first received notification of the health protection regulations in a written briefing from the Department of Justice received on 1 December. Yes: seven days ago. One week ago was when the Committee was provided with a written briefing.

The Committee was advised that two of the regulations are of relevance to the Department of Justice as they relate to offences, fines and penalties for breaches of the regulations. Therefore, although the responsibility for the regulations rests with the Health Minister, the Minister of Justice agreed to lead the debate on those two regulations, along with the three others in support of the Health Minister, as she has outlined.

During the pandemic, the Justice Committee has received regular written and oral briefings and updates on COVID-19 and its impact on the justice sector. We have questioned officials and senior police officers, including the Chief Constable, on breaches of the regulations and the approach to enforcement. We have sought information on the number of fines and fixed penalty notices issued, and also on the number and type of breaches reported via the COVID-19 hotline. Despite that, there was no engagement by the Department with the Committee on the review of fines and penalties that gave rise to the challenges reflected in those regulations.

The review of offences and penalties was carried out collaboratively by the Department of Justice and the Department of Health. It was the Minister of Justice who recommended the proposed changes to the Executive. The Department of Justice advised the Committee that the proposals had been considered by the Executive on 8 and 15 October. There was, therefore, ample time to inform the Committee for Justice of the proposed changes well before the notification of 1 December.

It has been said —.

Photo of Paula Bradshaw Paula Bradshaw Alliance 12:15, 8 December 2020

On a point of order, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker. Will you remind the House that Standing Order 43(1) provides:

"Every statutory rule or draft statutory rule which - (a) is laid before the Assembly; and (b) is subject to Assembly proceedings," —

Including negative, affirmative and confirmative procedure —

"shall stand referred to the appropriate committee for scrutiny."?

In this instance, because they are Department of Health regulations, it was right and proper that we, the Health Committee, scrutinised it.

Photo of Christopher Stalford Christopher Stalford DUP

The Member's understanding of Standing Order 43(1) is correct.

Photo of Paul Givan Paul Givan DUP

It has been said many times before that this situation is unprecedented, and it is sometimes necessary to make changes at a swift pace. However, that does not appear to have been the case in this specific instance. The Committee discussed the Department of Justice's written briefing on the regulations on 3 December. The Justice Committee recognises that the scrutiny of the health protection statutory rules is a matter for the Committee for Health and that that Committee is often required to consider regulations at short notice, which does not always allow for consultation with other Committees.

The Committee is concerned, however, that there may be a more widespread scrutiny deficit, with Statutory Committees being either unaware or provided with last-minute notification of policy changes relevant to their Department's remit that are being included in health protection regulations. I will, therefore, be writing to the First Minister and deputy First Minister on behalf of the Committee to ask all Departments to engage with their respective Statutory Committees on matters to be included in the health protection regulations that fall within their remit at the earliest opportunity.

I am unable to provide the Committee's position on the regulations, given that we have not had the opportunity to consider them or the policy intention behind them. I understand that Department of Justice officials gave oral evidence to the Committee for Health, and, therefore, it will be for the Chair and members of the Health Committee to comment on the specific details in the regulations.

Those remarks are made in my capacity as Chairman of the Justice Committee. I appreciate that some Members seem to struggle to recognise the role of a Chairman of a Committee, but what I have just articulated is the unanimous position held by all parties on the Justice Committee.

Setting aside my role as Chairman of the Committee, I will speak in a personal capacity on the regulations and the process through which they have been brought about. As I outlined in my role as Chairman of the Committee, the Justice Committee recognises the unprecedented way in which the regulations have been taken forward. It recognises, and I recognise, that it is for the legislative framework through the Department of Health and, indeed, the Statutory Committee for Health to deal with the detail around the statutory rules. Indeed, I received a letter from the First Minister and deputy First Minister yesterday outlining that issue, and I put on record my appreciation to Arlene Foster and Michelle O'Neill for writing to me in my capacity as Chairman of the Justice Committee.

The First Minister and deputy First Minister outlined the approach that the Executive have been taking and the collaborative way in which they are seeking to operate, and I agree with all that. That is, however, notwithstanding the issue around the roles of Committees. In my conversation with the First Minister yesterday, I was able to provide assurance to her that the Justice Committee takes it role very seriously, as do I in my membership of that Committee.

Where Committees have an opportunity to engage and be consulted with, I advocate that all Ministers should do so with their relevant Committee. Under the relevant powers conferred upon Committees in section 29 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998 and, indeed, in Standing Order 48 of this House, the final bullet point states that the Justice Committee's role is to consider and advise on matters brought to the Committee by the Minister of Justice. We were denied that opportunity because the Minister of Justice did not come to the Justice Committee. Departmental officials did not come to the Justice Committee. We recognise the legal statutory process for how this is being engaged, but the Minister could have led the way on this and engaged with the Justice Committee, but she chose not to do so.

Photo of Paula Bradshaw Paula Bradshaw Alliance

Will the Member take an intervention?

Photo of Paul Givan Paul Givan DUP

That is a decision for the Justice Minister. I will take an intervention.

Photo of Paula Bradshaw Paula Bradshaw Alliance

What happens in the Alliance Party is that, if an issue comes before the Health Committee that crosses into other Departments, I engage with my MLA colleagues on those Committees to find out their position so that I represent the whole party at the Committee. Are you suggesting that that is not what happened on your side of the House?

Photo of Paul Givan Paul Givan DUP

Of course my members engage across political parties, but that does not negate the opportunity that all Members have through our membership of the relevant Committees to provide an opportunity. As I indicated, the Committee has engaged with the Chief Constable and ACC Todd on gold command when it comes to enforcement. That is all relevant to the regulations when it comes to enforcement. I understand the way in which things operate, but there are opportunities, and Members can bring that expertise through their normal Committee membership.

A letter that was circulated to all Justice Committee members states that the Executive Office understands that some members of the Justice Committee consider that, in light of the Minister of Justice's offer to lead on this debate, the scrutiny role should have been conferred on it, and that they intend to express their dissatisfaction during the debate. I was able to provide useful information to the First Minister to explain what the Justice Committee agreed to do. There is an issue about the information source when it came to advising the Executive Office. Who provided the information on what the Justice Committee agreed and discussed? It certainly informed the basis of a letter that I would question. There needs to be an explanation in that respect. No doubt the Minister will elaborate on that.

Photo of Paul Givan Paul Givan DUP

I will happily give way, despite the fact that the Minister never engaged with the Committee. I will, however, engage with the Minister in the Assembly.

Photo of Naomi Long Naomi Long Alliance

Is the Committee Chair aware that Committee meetings are public and that people can watch them on television?

Photo of Paul Givan Paul Givan DUP

If that is the basis on which I received the letter, that will be an interesting explanation. If anyone watched the proceedings of the Committee, they will know what the Committee decided.

Just for Members' benefit, the minutes of that Committee meeting have now been published. Members will now know what the Committee agreed. The Committee agreed unanimously at the meeting on 3 September to write to FM and DFM asking that all Ministers engage with their respective Statutory Committees on relevant aspects of COVID-19 health regulations that cover policy areas that are the responsibility of their Department. That correspondence will be copied to all Committee Chairmen and Madam Chairs. The Committee also agreed to ask the Department of Justice why there was no engagement with it or information provided on the review of offences or penalties in the proposed changes prior to 1 December, given that that falls within the remit of the Department of Justice. The Committee also agreed to ask for the protocol advising the Committee when DOJ officials are providing oral evidence to another Statutory Committee. At no stage did the Justice Committee seek to usurp the legal responsibility of the Health Committee in carrying out its role with the statutory rule. I encourage the Justice Minister to work with the Justice Committee. We have an important role. We can provide you with advice and support, and we can give an insight, but, Minister, we can do that only when you decide to engage with the Justice Committee. I hope that, in future, you seek to take a more constructive approach when it comes to COVID-19 regulations.

Photo of Christopher Stalford Christopher Stalford DUP

I am sorry to interrupt the Member, but I remind him that comments should be directed through the Chair.

Photo of Paul Givan Paul Givan DUP

Of course, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker.

The Committee considered the regulations that relate to enforcement. We had the police before us because, when you introduce enforcement measures such as fines that have already taken effect, it is vital that we see a consistency of approach in their application. We know from the early months that it took the police some time to quality assure — if I can put it that way — the way in which they dealt with checking people's activities. We had cases in which the police looked in people's shopping bags to establish whether essential items had been bought, and we know the furore that that created.

The police had to put measures in place to ensure that a consistent approach was being applied, and I welcomed the way in which they did that.

Of course, had we been given an opportunity, we would have considered the proportionality of the associated fines. The Justice Committee looks at fines for speeding offences, for example. We all know that speeding kills, and we would have been able to look at the current speeding fine and compare it with the fine that has been introduced. However, we were not able to do that because we were not engaged.

We need to consider how different breaches have been handled by the Police Service. Members raised the issue of the policing of protests such as the Black Lives Matters protest, at which fines were issued. Indeed, under the most recent regulations to be introduced, we have cases where church authorities have been interviewed by the police because of alleged breaches. Of course, people compare and contrast that with the lack of police interviews when it comes to a particular funeral in west Belfast. Then, we raise the issue about the public having confidence in the administration of the fines that are being put in place.

We need to see enforcement measures being applied equally to everybody in society. There cannot be a two-tier approach to policing. The Minister of Justice has a particular role in ensuring public confidence in the administration of justice. I know that she will say that these are operational matters for the PSNI; a position that she has taken since assuming office. However, when that operational decision-making process impinges on public confidence, it comes within the scope of the Justice Minister.

Photo of Jim Wells Jim Wells DUP

I thank the Member for giving way. There is deep concern in the community that the police, we understand, have indicated that they will be swift to take action against Tandragee Baptist Church for its alleged breach of the coronavirus restrictions. However, they have yet to interview the leader of the party opposite, Michelle O'Neill, about the disgraceful scenes that we witnessed at the Bobby Storey funeral.

Photo of Paul Givan Paul Givan DUP

The Member makes the point very well. When I look at the regulations going through the House today, I see that we are increasing the level of fines and making it clear, as an Assembly, that enforcement is an important tool. It is the application of that tool that requires consistency of approach by the Police Service of Northern Ireland. I share the concerns that the Member elaborated on.

It is important that effective enforcement measures are in place. However, we all have the power in our own hands to act in a responsible way and to apply common sense so that we should not need enforcement in the community when it comes to policing the regulations. The best form of policing any society is self-policing, self-regulation and an awareness of one's personal responsibility. That is, ultimately, where we need to get to. Nevertheless, a minority will always flagrantly breach the law. That undermines the entire message, and it requires effective enforcement and policing. The absence of such enforcement and policing leads to people no longer acting responsibly. A further consequence is that the Executive have to take action to close down small businesses and close contact services, such as hairdressers' salons. They have paid the price because there has not been self-regulation or the kind of enforcement that there should have been. Let there be a better approach so that we do not need to take action against other individuals and organisations in our society.

Photo of Paul Givan Paul Givan DUP

I will, yes.

Photo of Daniel McCrossan Daniel McCrossan Social Democratic and Labour Party

I appreciate the strength with which the Member delivers his message about the importance of ensuring that we adhere to the regulations. Has he given such advice to his colleague Sammy Wilson?

Photo of Paul Givan Paul Givan DUP

Of course, all Members need to behave in a sensible and responsible manner. It is up to everybody in the House to conduct themselves in that way. It does not matter which Parliament you are in.

Let us not be distracted from the core substance of what we are dealing with today. It is important that we have a consistent approach to the policing of the regulations. I look forward to hearing the Minister's response and to her providing a justification of her failure to engage with members of the Justice Committee.

Photo of Colm Gildernew Colm Gildernew Sinn Féin 12:30, 8 December 2020

I appreciate the Minister's being here to address the Assembly on these measures.

The Health Committee considered the first four sets of regulations on 26 November, but the amendment (No. 16) regulations were included in the final Order Paper without the Committee being given prior notice. They were therefore added late to our agenda last Thursday. A briefing on the first four SRs was provided by a cross-departmental group of officials, who gave an overview of the main provisions. Those provisions included the extension of the schedule 2 restrictions, subject to modifications; additional requirements for premises selling food or drink; new premises improvement notices; and changes to penalties, including penalties for failure to wear a face covering. Officials also advised us of a strategic level working group that had been established by the Executive to look at compliance with coronavirus regulations. We were advised that the working group is chaired by junior Ministers and brings together a range of agencies and that it has conducted a rapid review, since September, owing to concerns about rates of transmission and a desire to ensure effective deterrents from breaching the rules.

Provisions relating to increased penalties prompted questions around rationale, necessity, the evidence base and equality considerations. The remaining questions centred on practical outworkings. Given the absence of a formal equality impact assessment of the higher penalties, Committee members probed the consideration given to the issue. Among matters considered were affordability issues relating to masks and the differential impact that increased fines could have. Although officials assured the Committee that such matters were taken into account and agreed that there could be potential inequalities, they could not provide detail, and they advised that they might not be able to come back to us with it, as the Executive papers are confidential.

Photo of Linda Dillon Linda Dillon Sinn Féin

I thank the Chair for taking an intervention. Does he agree that it is important that the PSNI continue its course of action around engagement, encouragement and enforcement — the three Es, as were talked about at the start — to address exactly the issues that he has just raised? We have to accept that, in some circumstances, people will not understand the regulations, because they are complex, even for those of us who are going through them every day. They are therefore difficult for ordinary people on the street to understand. The PSNI needs to continue in that vein so that people fully understand the implications of what they are doing.

Photo of Colm Gildernew Colm Gildernew Sinn Féin

Go raibh maith agat. I thank the Member for her intervention. I agree with her. It is essential that it start with communication, and then engagement and encouragement. In some ways, enforcement demonstrates a failure of the other steps. We need to work from that basis and understand that some people will potentially struggle to abide by the restrictions because of a lack of income and because, in some senses, they are difficult to understand.

Officials also outlined the continued approach to using enforcement as a last resort, which is in keeping with the Member's intervention, but could not provide detail on trends or fines relating to enforcement. We wanted to know about the evidence base for anticipated improvements in compliance underpinning the increase in fines. Officials said that they would have to come back to us on that. We asked about affordability issues with masks, and we were again advised that officials would take the matter back.

Photo of Jonathan Buckley Jonathan Buckley DUP

I appreciate the Chair's giving way. His feelings on the inappropriate way in which these regulations come before the House, and the lack of scrutiny thereof, are firmly on the record, as are mine. The points that he has just outlined surely go to the heart of the lack of democratic scrutiny in the House. We are here today debating these regulations even though officials came before the Committee, could not provide the information and promised to come back. When they did, they still did not provide it. Does the Chair agree that the fact that the Chair of the Justice Committee has outlined today how that Committee had no role in the scrutiny of these regulations is of concern, given the lack of democratic scrutiny of regulations that have come before the House?

Photo of Colm Gildernew Colm Gildernew Sinn Féin

I thank the Member for his intervention. I have been consistent in saying that we need to see good information being provided to and good engagement happening with whichever Committees are relevant to the scrutiny of the regulations. I will deal later with the fact that, in normal circumstances, we would not be considering legislation or changes to rules in this way, but it is pertinent to note that, although we recognise that these are unusual situations and circumstances, it is incumbent on all Departments, and everyone concerned, to provide the required level of data and analysis. If, as the Member indicated, Committees are being asked to support regulations, they should be provided with a clear sense of why those regulations are needed and why a particular approach versus another is best. They should then be able to assess that.

I am quite sure that these questions are asked —.

Photo of Jim Allister Jim Allister Traditional Unionist Voice

In the same vein, the Member's Committee has considered a successive number of these regulations, each of which bears the affirmation that no impact assessment was made. Sometimes, it says that there was no "regulatory impact assessment" or simply no "impact assessment". Has it never given the Committee concern that it has been asked to consider regulations where there has been no impact assessment?

Photo of Colm Gildernew Colm Gildernew Sinn Féin

I thank the Member for his intervention. Yes, that is one of the issues of concern, and the Committee is increasingly seeking to ensure that, whatever vehicle is used, maximum consideration is given to that. As we move further into what should be normal ways of operating, equality impact assessments should be done or some attempt made to address the lack of those assessments.

On a practical note, the detail of the information to be gathered by hospitality settings was raised. A member suggested that requesting addresses might support businesses wishing to comply with the rule restricting the number of persons at a table to no more than six and from no more than two households. I recognise that complying with that is difficult. I spoke this morning with someone who is involved in the hospitality business and who reports that that is a very difficult thing to establish.

Responding to a question on the distinction between retail and office settings, officials explained that health and safety legislation deals with workers, whereas the present suite of regulations is aimed at protecting the public.

The Committee, as ever, seeks to not only be constructive but to provide the appropriate scrutiny on behalf of the public. One source of data that informs the Committee on a regular basis, along with all the other pieces of information, shows, unfortunately, the new daily case rate, the figure for hospital admissions, the ICU capacity, which today sits at 99%, and, sadly, the daily reported deaths which, as of today, are 1,059. None of that evidence and information can be ignored.

Despite reservations arising from some unanswered questions, the Committee agreed to lend its support to the measures. The Committee recognises that the regulations are cross-departmental and has written to the Health Department, which is the drafting lead, seeking to have its concerns heard and addressed in future sets of regulations. Indeed, the Justice Minister could directly comment in her response whether the Department has been consulted directly at this time in developing a new COVID-19 strategy or even whether the Executive have seen the new detailed strategy that includes the pillars of finding, testing, tracing, isolating and supporting the public. That was a Health Committee motion that was agreed by consensus in the Committee and again in the House. We have called for a new COVID strategy, developed by the Department of Health and supported by the wider Executive, in order to end the cycle of lockdowns. That was passed last month in the Assembly, and, as we enter the early phases of Christmas and the vaccination programme, it will be timely to hear about progress to date on any development of that new robust strategy.

With your permission, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle, I would like to address Members briefly in my role as MLA and Sinn Féin spokesperson for health. I am sure that many Members will make similar points as the debate goes on, but I am concerned about the steady increase in the number of new cases that are announced daily. To put it bluntly, we are not seeing the drop in case numbers, admissions and, sadly, in deaths, that we hoped for. I cannot help but think of the absolute mess, when public health proposals were voted against in the Executive, created by using a cross-community vote and of where we could be now had the Executive been able to act quicker.

However, we are where we are —.

Photo of Trevor Clarke Trevor Clarke DUP

Will the Member give way?

Photo of Trevor Clarke Trevor Clarke DUP

I note what the Member said about where we are today, but had the Member the same concerns when most of his colleagues on the Benches around him attended a funeral in breach of the same regulations?

Photo of Colm Gildernew Colm Gildernew Sinn Féin

That matter has been addressed multiple times in the Assembly.

However, we are where we are. One constant feature of the COVID-19 pandemic has been the ever-present lack of time. Therefore, it is to be expected that some of the technical amendments that tidy up the original intentions of the decisions are brought forward. It has to be said again: no one wants the restrictions to be in place for any longer than they have to be. Unfortunately, however, the case for restrictions is often being better made in the corridors of ICU wards, on the countless calendars marked with crucial missed appointments for other health matters, and by families that have had to resort to making FaceTime calls instead of visiting family members as a result of the restrictions.

I support the amendments. Let us continue to do all that we can, individually and collectively, to stop the spread of COVID-19.

Photo of Christopher Stalford Christopher Stalford DUP

I call the Chair of the Executive Office Committee, Mr Colin McGrath.

Photo of Colin McGrath Colin McGrath Social Democratic and Labour Party

I will be making my remarks as an SDLP Member. I thank you for the opportunity to speak in the debate today. I thank the Justice Minister for coming to the House and actually bringing forward some legislation and participating in the debate.

The regulations that we are being asked to ratify take us back to the middle of November, a time that, on reflection, many in the House may choose to forget, given the chaos that was allowed to take hold at that stage. However, today is a momentous day in the fight against COVID-19, and we must keep our eyes fixed firmly on the future and how we do things from here on. It is important to note that the first COVID-19 vaccine was given to Margaret Keenan in England, although she hails from Enniskillen. The first vaccine in the North was given to a constituent from South Down, Joanna Sloan, who is a nurse. We welcome the fact that she has received the vaccine and wish her, and everyone else who has been vaccinated, the very best as she delivers the vaccine to people across Northern Ireland.

Amendment No.13 provides additional requirements for food and drink establishments, further provision for social distancing and large gatherings, and increases the fines that a breach carries. Amendment No.4, on face coverings, also increases the level of fine for those who breach the regulations. Amendment No.14 gives district councils the power to attach premise improvement notices to businesses that needed to amend their protection in light of the regulations. Amendment No.15 concerns the circuit breaker that allowed the phased reopening for close-contact services and the gradual reopening of hospitality. Finally, amendment No. 6 concerns those in close-contact services who work in film and television production and the number of households that can sit at a table in the hospitality industry.

I do not know about anybody else, but I find that mapping out the timeline of events can be quite confusing, as so many amendments are being updated. Some will have lapsed by the time we discuss them, and some have since changed, even though we are discussing them. I am sure that everyone in the House can resonate with being asked a question, whether by a constituent or constituency office staff, that requires you to stop and think to try to work out what the exact regulation is and what its impact may be. <BR/>Let us be under no illusions: scrutinising legislation is definitely not for the faint-hearted. However, these regulations were, and are, necessary. We need to continue to do all that we can to stop the spread of the virus and help our beloved healthcare staff, who, frankly, have been the heroes in all of this. As the vaccine is rolled out, we need restrictions now more than ever.

How do we do that? We have to normalise some behaviours that previously would have seemed improbable or even impossible. For example, the wearing of face masks has become normalised for most of us. When someone not wearing a face mask coughs or sneezes in public, you become very aware that they are not wearing a face mask.

How do you encourage the wearing of face masks? Well, you can do it through the science and detail the reasons for doing it; you can do it through encouragement and asking people to wear a face mask; or, if necessary, from time to time, if people refuse, you have to levy fines. That is what resulted in conformity from about April or May through to now. Very quickly, all those measures together encouraged people to wear face masks. Fines have played their part.

Photo of Pat Sheehan Pat Sheehan Sinn Féin

Would it not also be an encouragement for some people to wear masks if they were made freely available? These masks are sometimes not inexpensive, especially the disposable ones. If they were made freely available, more people might be more likely to wear them.

Photo of Colin McGrath Colin McGrath Social Democratic and Labour Party

I thank the Member for his intervention. I know of his continued intervention in the Health Committee, especially highlighting the situation in South East Asia, where face masks are worn regularly and have been part of the ability to control the spread of the virus there. Yes, I totally agree with him. They are not very expensive. I think, from checking DUP returns, that it costs about £48 for quite a considerable box-load of them. If you can get the face masks and make them available to people, it would encourage their use. I know that it is an extra cost for businesses, but people sometimes find themselves at shops and other places and do not have a mask and could do with one. Making them generally available would certainly help.

Photo of Paul Givan Paul Givan DUP

I appreciate the Member giving way. He has articulated a clear position on the need for wearing masks, and I do not disagree with that. Will he also comment on those who, under the law, rightly have an exemption for respiratory reasons such as asthma or for psychological reasons? It is important that we respect their position and do not have a scenario where people are being shamed because they have legitimate health reasons for not wearing a face mask.

Photo of Colin McGrath Colin McGrath Social Democratic and Labour Party

I thank the Member for his intervention. I believe that those protections are in legislation and in the regulations as well. They specifically highlight that those who have particular reasons for not wearing masks should not have to wear them. I welcome those protections as well.

Photo of Linda Dillon Linda Dillon Sinn Féin

I thank the Member for taking a second intervention in such a short space of time. You talked about that provision and people finding themselves at shops without a mask. I have seen that for myself on many occasions. It is an issue, even more so if you have travelled by public transport; it is different if you only have to go back to your car. Some shops do provide them. Some shops and retailers — the big retailers — have been able to stay open right through the pandemic and have done fairly well because of that. They will be in a good position to provide free masks.

Photo of Colin McGrath Colin McGrath Social Democratic and Labour Party

I thank the Member for the intervention. Holistically, we are making the point that, if we can make masks available, it is of benefit and we should continue to do that. I would welcome that.

We are looking at the overall regulations today and questioning whether they were necessary. We have all accepted that the regulations that we currently have were and are necessary, but it begs this question: why did we stop for a week in the middle of the circuit breaker, reopen everything and then close it down again for a further two weeks? That just did not sit right. It means that we will see a slight rise in cases, then, when we shut down for two weeks, cases go back down again. One has to reflect back to that period and ask whether it would have been better to have gone six weeks right through. It has already been mentioned that the numbers are not dropping as we would like, and that may be because of that week when we did not shut down.

Photo of Daniel McCrossan Daniel McCrossan Social Democratic and Labour Party

I thank the Member for being so generous in giving way. Will he agree with me that, while intervention is absolutely essential to help support businesses through this very difficult time, the Eat Out to Help Out scheme may have been too generous and far too early an intervention, given that it has absolutely fed into the levels of infection in our communities?

Photo of Colin McGrath Colin McGrath Social Democratic and Labour Party

I thank the Member for his intervention. Yes, we need to provide as much support as we can to businesses because they are having a difficult time, but, at the same time, we need to make sure that the protections and support that we are providing for businesses do not have an inadvertent consequence. I hope that we can provide the financial support that businesses need, and that may mean that they do not need to operate to a level that may cause some difficulties.

The vaccines are being rolled out to the most vulnerable and to those at risk. Christmas is ahead of us, and there is very real hope going into the new year. However, our work as legislators must continue.

As we come to the end of the year once again and prepare to begin anew, let the lessons of the past few weeks not be lost on anyone in the House. Bullheadedness and digging your heels in gets us nowhere and will only set us back. Let us approach the new year with a sense of optimism on what has been done when we let the public down and with a renewed sense of clarity, collective purpose and cohesion for the Executive. While I have issues with what happened and the way in which it happened in November, we continue to look forward to the future. We support the amendments.

Photo of Christopher Stalford Christopher Stalford DUP

Members, given that it is now 12.51 pm and the Business Committee is due to meet at 1.00 pm, I propose, by leave of the Assembly, to suspend the sitting until 2.00 pm. The first item of business when we return will be questions to the Economy Minister. When this item of business resumes, the next Member to speak will be Mr Doug Beattie.

The debate stood suspended. The sitting was suspended at 12.51 pm.

On resuming (Mr Deputy Speaker [Mr Beggs] in the Chair) —