NAMA: Project Eagle

Oral Answers to Questions — Finance – in the Northern Ireland Assembly at 2:45 pm on 27 September 2016.

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Photo of Sandra Overend Sandra Overend UUP 2:45, 27 September 2016

1. Mrs Overend asked the Minister of Finance to outline the discussions he has had with the Public Accounts Committee in the Republic of Ireland regarding the sale of Project Eagle. (AQO 338/16-21)

Photo of Gerry Mullan Gerry Mullan Social Democratic and Labour Party

7. Mr Mullan asked the Minister of Finance to outline how his Department is cooperating with the Irish Government's investigation into the National Asset Management Agency's Northern Ireland property sale. (AQO 344/16-21)

Photo of Máirtín Ó Muilleoir Máirtín Ó Muilleoir Sinn Féin

Ba mhaith liom ceist 1 agus 7 a thabhairt le chéile. With your permission, Mr Speaker, I will answer questions 1 and 7 together.

I have written to the Taoiseach and the Finance Minister in the South of Ireland, assuring them of my Department's full cooperation with any investigation by the Irish Government into Project Eagle and the National Asset Management Agency (NAMA)/Cerberus deal. I have not had any specific contact with the Public Accounts Committee — it has not been in touch with me — but I will, of course, offer any support that the PAC needs in the conduct of its inquiry, inquiries or investigations. The Member can rest assured that all efforts and investigations to reveal the truth of what happened with Project Eagle, and what happened subsequent to that in relation to NAMA and Cerberus, will have my total backing.

Photo of Sandra Overend Sandra Overend UUP

I thank the Minister for that response. During yesterday's Opposition day debate on NAMA, Sinn Féin and the DUP combined to remove from the motion references to damage to Northern Ireland's international reputation. As a frequent visitor to our key market of the United States of America, does the Minister not agree that the NAMA scandal has had a negative impact on our political and business reputation?

Photo of Máirtín Ó Muilleoir Máirtín Ó Muilleoir Sinn Féin

Go raibh maith agat. I thank the Member for her supplementary. It is, perhaps, worth putting on record what happened yesterday. The House united, through a majority vote, to ask for a full investigation into the NAMA/Cerberus deal and to say that it would support all investigations.

The Member will be aware that I spoke yesterday about meeting the National Crime Agency (NCA), but the NCA is not the only law enforcement agency investigating. An Garda Síochána and, in the States, the FBI and the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) are also investigating.

As I travel, it is my opinion that businesspeople, particularly in North America, look on this deal in two ways. They believe, as do most of us in the House, that there was something rotten in how the deal was fixed, formed and brought over the line, as well as in how £7 million ended up in the Isle of Man. Businesspeople who I meet are heartened by the fact that people are revolted by that and determined to get at the truth.

There is an added layer that will, I think, give the Member some heart and confidence in how we are viewed abroad. Those in high positions in corporate boardrooms in North America also welcome the fact that, on the American side, the purchase of Project Eagle by Cerberus is the subject of intense investigation by the FBI and the SEC. They are two almost parallel but separate lines of investigation.

The people who I meet are confident that the FBI and the SEC have the resources to get to the truth of what happened. I have said this before, and I will say it again, Mrs Overend: it is my opinion that getting to the truth will not be easy, and I really think that we need an all-island investigation. However, I have a lot of faith in the agencies — starting at the level of the FBI and the SEC, and then, of course, the NCA and the gardaí — bringing to book and to justice those who are guilty of what I believe was wrongdoing,

Photo of Robin Newton Robin Newton Speaker

May I remind the Minister, at this very early stage of Question Time, about the two-minute rule?

Photo of Gerry Mullan Gerry Mullan Social Democratic and Labour Party

Minister, despite your protestations, I have to say that, during yesterday's debate, it was hugely disappointing that the DUP and Sinn Féin prevented moves for a new inquiry and an all-island investigation. Does the Minister agree that the actions taken by the Executive parties to create a smokescreen around issues with NAMA's sale of Project Eagle have only further damaged the credibility of the Executive and Government?

Photo of Máirtín Ó Muilleoir Máirtín Ó Muilleoir Sinn Féin

The Member may have been at a different debate yesterday but I would say this to him: the debate I was at yesterday, and how I voted, was to support an all-island commission of investigation into the NAMA/Cerberus deal in the sale of Project Eagle. The Member is new to the House, but I have spent the last 24 months probing this issue and it is my contention and resolve to get to the heart of the corruption regarding the Project Eagle deal. I remain absolutely determined and will not be deflected from my desire and resolve to deliver what the people want, which is the truth about the sale of Project Eagle. The Member might have been at a different debate, but Sinn Féin in this House — if I may speak for Sinn Féin for a moment, Mr Speaker — and I, as Minister of Finance, will do everything in our power to get the people the result they deserve, which is to have the truth and have the wrongdoers brought to book.

Photo of Ian Milne Ian Milne Sinn Féin

Buíochas fosta leis an Aire as na freagraí sin. Will the Minister provide us with an update on his recent meeting with the NCA?

Photo of Máirtín Ó Muilleoir Máirtín Ó Muilleoir Sinn Féin

Go raibh maith agat as an cheist sin. I thank the Member for his question. I met the NCA in Lisburn last Thursday. Finance Committee members will know, as they have been briefed repeatedly, that the NCA remains on course. All of us share the frustration of how slow and meticulous these investigations are, which is of necessity. That said, the NCA has delivered in the course of the inquiry, as it pledged to us, and has reported back to the Finance Committee and to me. While the nature of our discussions have to remain confidential, I am pleased that there has been no let up in the NCA's intent to not only find out what happened in terms of the Project Eagle sale but to bring those involved to book.

I hope that the commission of investigation that is being suggested and proposed by the Taoiseach comes about and that it has an all-island brief. In the time ahead, there will be ample opportunity to test the resolve of the NCA on this issue. Like the Executive, the Minister of Finance, Assembly Members and the Finance Committee, the NCA will be will be tested on its delivery, and the officers I met understand this. In this test, they are determined to succeed.

Photo of Naomi Long Naomi Long Alliance

The Minister said that it is a test that this is properly investigated, not just for the Department of Finance and the Executive but for Members of the Assembly. Does he agree with my party leader, David Ford, who suggested that party leaders in the Assembly should come together and agree a means by which these matters can be investigated where there is common agreement around how this is taken forward, particularly in relation to the non-criminal matters and allegations relating to inappropriate behaviour in public office?

Photo of Máirtín Ó Muilleoir Máirtín Ó Muilleoir Sinn Féin

I thank Mrs Long for her question. I thought that that was Stephen Farry's idea yesterday.

Photo of Naomi Long Naomi Long Alliance

Everything comes from David down.

Photo of Máirtín Ó Muilleoir Máirtín Ó Muilleoir Sinn Féin

There are many masters when there is a good decision like that.

My approach, as the Member knows, is one of inclusion. The Finance Committee has not decided the most appropriate way forward for it. The Executive have many ways to continue to support the many investigations into this matter and I hope that they step up and support all the investigations. I have no hesitation in saying that if parties want to gather together and consider a way forward they should do that. However, Mrs Long, perhaps the way to do it is through the Finance Committee where all parties are represented. The Committee is taking its own counsel as regards its next best steps.

For my part, I agree, and Mr Farry said — I am not sure whether I caught Mr Ford saying it — that it is essential, if we are going to get to the truth, that the commission of investigation has to have a wide ranging all-island brief. I hesitate to say that it has to go off the island as well, because some of the goings on and shenanigans happened in other jurisdictions, but I agree with Mr Farry that the commission of investigation needs to be all-island and we need to make sure that it can do its work north of the border as well.