Westminster Elections

Private Members' Business – in the Northern Ireland Assembly at 4:00 pm on 20 April 2015.

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Photo of Mitchel McLaughlin Mitchel McLaughlin Speaker 4:00, 20 April 2015

The Business Committee has agreed to allow up to one hour and 30 minutes for the debate. The proposer of the motion will have 10 minutes to propose and 10 minutes in which to make a winding-up speech. All other Members who wish to speak will have five minutes.

Photo of Colum Eastwood Colum Eastwood Social Democratic and Labour Party

I beg to move

That this Assembly notes the potential for a hung Parliament following the Westminster elections; further notes that the votes of Members of Parliament from Northern Ireland could be critical in relation to the formation of the next Westminster Government; and calls on all Members of Parliament returned from Northern Ireland to play their full part in achieving the best possible outcomes for Northern Ireland, in particular in relation to the block grant and welfare provisions.

I am glad to move the motion this afternoon. It is quite clear that this is one of the most interesting Westminster elections that we have seen in quite a while. For the first time in a long time, people here can have a say in what type of British Government are formed, what type of policies they will follow and what impact that will have on us here. We are all very good here at blaming the British when we run out of money, and we are very good at, rightly, recognising that the Tory cuts have been detrimental to our people and that the welfare cuts have had a very real and dangerous impact on the people of the North. If we recognise that, we have to recognise that that is where the decisions are being made in relation to those key areas of budget and welfare. The logical outworking of that is that we go there, as a starting point, and that we go there to maximise our influence to best serve the people of the North. That is what the SDLP intends to do. We want to join others in a kind of Celtic coalition to help lock David Cameron out of Downing Street. I think that would be a good result.

We have heard people in the Chamber, people on protest rallies and people from trade unions talk about the impact that the Tory Government have had in the North, whether on the welfare system or on our block grant. When we are offered the opportunity of an election in Westminster, whatever some of us might think about the fact that we, unfortunately, still have to go to there to represent our people, I think it is incumbent on all of us to take up that opportunity to put the case and get the best possible deal for people here.

The Tory Party has said that its very first act would be to reduce the benefit cap. If that is going to be its first act, I worry very much about what its second, third, fourth and fifth acts will be. I think that the potential Tory Government or Tory/UKIP Government, with, maybe, the DUP as well, are determined to reduce even further the welfare provisions for the most vulnerable; they are determined to reduce even further the pay and conditions for our public sector; and they are determined to reduce the size of government. We all know what kind of an impact that will have here and on people in constituencies like my own that suffer unemployment issues and suffer as a result of bad government and bad politics. We are determined to make our voice heard; I encourage other people to do the same.

I ask the DUP to make it clear that, if it is within its gift, it will not allow a Tory Government to do what they have been doing, multiplying the impact on the people here. Equally, I ask Sinn Féin to review its policy of abstentionism, because, if it is able to sit in here and Dáil Éireann, how does that not apply to Westminster? I understand that people can be abstentionist if they want, but I do not think that there is a consistent message in sitting in here while there is still no united Ireland. I do not understand. If there is a place that people need to be represented in, people need to go and do that representing. We need to join with the other progressive forces across these islands in trying to prevent another Tory Government and trying to support a Labour Government that will do the right thing because we make sure that they do the right thing. What we need to look for from the negotiations that, I think, will be inevitable after the Westminster election is a proper, better and fairer deal for the North.

What should the Barnett consequentials of the HS2 project look like if we get them? Based on DFP's figures, it should be £1·3 billion for the North of Ireland. Imagine the infrastructure development that we could put in place with £1·3 billion. People talk about welfare all the time. We need to tackle welfare dependency, and the best way to do that is to put people into work. The way that you put people into work is by investing in infrastructure and skills. We want a deal that ensures expanded university provision and expanded infrastructure investment right across the North, so that places like Derry can begin to properly contribute to the economy of the North, therefore reducing the welfare bill and leading to all the positive things that flow from that. We would also like to see a city deal for Derry — my colleagues from other cities will allow me this indulgence — that will allow us to ring-fence funding and borrowing powers for people in Derry and to implement all those things that we would like to see happen.

I have another major worry about this election. One of the potential Governments that are talked about is one made up of the Conservative Party, UKIP and potentially the DUP. What would that end up with? It would end up with there being a referendum on Britain's involvement in the European Union. Does anybody in the House think that a British exit from the European Union would be good for Britain or here? When we are sitting with a land border with another jurisdiction that is part of the European Union, I cannot understand how that would be a positive thing for the North of Ireland. In fact, look at the direct funding that came from the EU between 2007 and 2013. It was £1·3 billion in single farm payments; £330 million through the Northern Ireland rural development fund; £18 million through the European Fisheries Fund; £180 million through Peace III; over £300 million through the European regional development fund; £165 million through the European social fund element; and £77 million through INTERREG IV. That is without even talking about the benefits from doing trade with other member states. After this election, we are potentially looking at a Conservative/UKIP/DUP alliance that would allow for an exit from the European Union. People in Northern Ireland should be very scared of that, and, in our view, the only way to stop it is to ensure that we have a Labour Government in Downing Street, one that have their feet held to the fire by progressive forces from the Celtic areas around here.

I am an Irish nationalist and I would love not to have to go to Westminster. I would far rather go to our own national Parliament in Dublin, but the fact remains that power rests with Westminster, and, as democrats, we will go to Westminster to try to get the best possible deal for our people. We will go to Westminster to try to lock David Cameron out of Downing Street and ensure a progressive alliance in the next British Government. I hope that others will hear the call and join us in that fight.

Photo of David McIlveen David McIlveen DUP

I welcome the opportunity to speak to the motion, which is very timely as we come up to 7 May, and the election draws ever closer. I listened with interest to what the proposer of the motion said, and I think that the issue of Europe needs to be looked at very quickly. Amongst those who wish for the status quo with Europe to remain, there is hysteria about the very prospect of a referendum, but, importantly, there has not even been any agreement at this stage on what the referendum question would be. Given that, at this point in the election, we do not know what will happen on 7 May in any great form, we have to be careful not to allow ourselves to get drawn into an almost hysterical position on what our future relationship with Europe would look like. That broader discussion will definitely need to happen, but I am not convinced that this is the time to do it.

That said, I welcome the Member's premise. It is very telling, and it will not go unnoticed by the electorate, that there are people, even in the Assembly, who are very vocal in their opposition to the so-called Tory cuts, but, when they have the opportunity to make their voices heard in the national Parliament, they refuse to do so and miss that opportunity. The electorate's patience is growing thin. I believe that, in this election, the electorate will be looking not only at those who are shouting the loudest but at those who are backing up their words with actions.

This is a unique opportunity, and the precedent has been set. The Member for Foyle makes a very good point in that Northern Ireland is within the United Kingdom — long may that be the case, as far as I am concerned — but, while that is the case, what excuse do the parties that do not take their seats have, because the precedent has been set in other places?

If we look at the Israeli Parliament, for example, there is a very strong Israeli Arab representation, and it would be easy for those people to throw their hands in the air and say that they do not agree with the state and what it is doing, so they will absent themselves. However, what they say is that they can make a difference in the Parliament and can have the voices of their people heard. They back up their words with actions in the way that they do so. I struggle to see what the abstentionist parties really feel that they are achieving by taking that stance.

There are more important issues for us to look at. What can be achieved by strong Northern Ireland representation in the Mother of Parliaments in Westminster? From our point of view on this side of the House, we are putting the economy at the very centre of what we want to achieve, and we want to use our influence to ensure that Northern Ireland continues to prosper and to be looked on as a serious contender when it comes to foreign companies investing and creating wealth. The ability to set our own rate of corporation tax would be a hugely beneficial tool in making that grow even more. However, there is a huge question mark over whether, in the short to medium term, that will turn out to be the case while there is a continued failure on the part of some parties in the Assembly to face the realities that are being forced on us in relation to welfare reform.

I recognise that the Member for Foyle made specific mention of our party, and I am glad that even the nationalist parties are recognising that it looks like the DUP will be a strong contender for kingmaker when it comes to the next term. The Member will not be surprised to learn that I share his confidence. It is so important. This is a once-in-a-generation opportunity.

Indeed, it is a once-in-a-century opportunity for the parties of this island to have a real influence on the affairs of the national Parliament. That can be done only by returning a large, united group of people to Westminster. I believe with all my heart that the party on this side of the House is the only party that will be able to do that.

Photo of Rosaleen McCorley Rosaleen McCorley Sinn Féin 4:15, 20 April 2015

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Beidh mé ag caint in éadan an ruin seo inniu. I say at the outset that I oppose today's motion. I oppose it because, first, it is based on a false premise. It presupposes that there is a worth in taking seats at Westminster, that there is an impact and value to doing so and that it somehow reaps benefits for the people in the North. I have seen no benefits come to the North as a result of people taking their seats at Westminster, but it is up to them to do that. I represent West Belfast in the Assembly, and I can only say that I do not hear that from anybody there. Nobody has raised it with me — not once. Gerry Adams went before the people of West Belfast for many, many years, and he got a resounding endorsement on an abstentionist ticket. Nobody wanted Gerry Adams to take his seat, and that is the case throughout the North. Nobody who votes for Sinn Féin wants Sinn Féin to take seats in Westminster, because they do not see it as having value. Paul Maskey is going in front of the electorate in a few weeks' time, and I am sure that he will receive the same ringing endorsement as Gerry Adams had before him. I am convinced of that.

The leader of the party that tabled the motion, Alasdair McDonnell, is not here today, and I am a bit disappointed, because I would like to have heard from him. I read in a paper that he is in the bottom 10 out of 645 MPs at Westminster in attendance for votes. That tells me that he does not have much confidence in the system either. If he has confidence in it, why is he not there using his vote to make the impact that, he feels, it would have? I would like to hear from Alasdair about why he is not here today to extol the virtues of taking his seat in Westminster. I thought that that might have been useful. However, we will go on and see whether he appears.

As for influence, Sinn Féin has participated in all the major negotiations and all the big political decisions that affect people in the North, and we have done that successfully without taking seats in Westminster. It has not been a requirement; actually, it has not even been relevant. We have had the Good Friday Agreement, the Hillsborough agreement, the St Andrews Agreement and the Stormont House Agreement. All five of the main parties here, plus the two Governments, signed up to the Stormont House Agreement without a mention of Westminster. It was just not part of the equation. Therefore, it does not matter that, out of that, people then reneged on their agreements; the fact is that agreement was made. It is a major agreement, and it is one that we need to get back to.

Photo of Paul Frew Paul Frew DUP

I thank the Member for giving way. Will she tell the House why her party is so frightened to take its seats in the House of Commons? Is it the case that you cannot get by and around the swearing of the oath?

Photo of Mitchel McLaughlin Mitchel McLaughlin Speaker

The Member has an extra minute.

Photo of Rosaleen McCorley Rosaleen McCorley Sinn Féin

I tell the Member that we are not frightened; we just do not see it as relevant. We are Irish republicans, so we want to have influence on the island of Ireland. That is where the sphere of influence lies, not in a British Parliament, and I will unashamedly stand by that, as will my colleagues in Sinn Féin. As for the oath of allegiance, I have no desire to take any oath of allegiance to a British Crown. That is my position and my party's position. It is up to other people to decide whether taking an oath of allegiance to a British Crown assists the people of Ireland.

Photo of Roy Beggs Roy Beggs UUP

Will the Member give way?

Photo of Roy Beggs Roy Beggs UUP

Has the Member any interest in the taxes that are raised from her constituents? Is she aware that there are different oaths that can be sworn?

Photo of Rosaleen McCorley Rosaleen McCorley Sinn Féin

Sorry, I did not quite get the first bit of what you said.

Photo of Roy Beggs Roy Beggs UUP

Is she interested or concerned about the taxes that can be raised by Westminster, which can significantly affect her constituents, or, indeed, about the levels of benefits that are set at Westminster that, ultimately, we largely have to follow? By her absence, is she not accepting that she is leaving that to others? Furthermore, is she aware that a variety of oaths are available at Westminster if she happens to have a particular difficulty with the oath that most of us are content with?

Photo of Rosaleen McCorley Rosaleen McCorley Sinn Féin

In terms of taxes, what I and my party would like to see is more powers devolved to the North so that we could make our own decisions here. Whatever about what happens in Westminster, we will call for more powers to be devolved to the North, where we can make decisions for ourselves and not be beholden to decisions made by a Tory Government.

The part of the motion that I agree with is where it calls on all the people elected to come together to make the case for the best outcomes for people in the North. That is what Sinn Féin does; it is what we do every day. Everything we do is for making best outcomes for people in the North, and we do that without taking seats in Westminster.

Photo of Jo-Anne Dobson Jo-Anne Dobson UUP

I am a confirmed and unashamed unionist. It is my firm opinion that, whether we face a hung Parliament or a massive majority for Conservative or Labour, every Member elected from Northern Ireland should, as the motion states, seek at all times:

"to play their ... part in achieving the best possible outcomes for Northern Ireland".

When the last Labour Government left power, Liam Byrne left a note for his successor as Chief Secretary to the Treasury stating:

"Dear Chief Secretary. I'm afraid there is no money. Kind regards — and good luck! Liam."

The world economic situation meant that austerity was inevitable, regardless of who was in Downing Street. A Labour Government in 2010 would still have had to implement austerity policies. The collapse of the eurozone devastated the economies of the Republic of Ireland, Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal. The reality we face is that, in a bid to balance the books, there have been cuts in public spending in every English region plus Scotland and Wales, as well as Northern Ireland. We receive a subvention of £10 billion per year in Northern Ireland. The price of the Union is that we share in the national wealth when times are good and carry our share of the burden when times are not so good.

With regard to welfare provisions, there is no bottomless pit of money. We really must seek to put in place the welfare state we can afford. Since its inception in the post-war consensus of 1945, it has expanded massively and expensively. It should be a safety net and not a lifestyle choice. We should reform all aspects of public services to ensure that we deliver value for money and operate as effectively as possible.

It should go without saying that every Northern Ireland MP elected to Westminster should at all times seek to represent and do the best for his or her constituents. It is in the Mother of Parliaments that key decisions are taken on taxation, welfare and defence. That is what makes Sinn Féin's policy of abstention futile. How can you complain about the impact of a policy when you could not be bothered to turn up when it was being debated? Instead of sitting on the green Benches of Westminster, Sinn Féin MPs adopt an approach of sitting on their hands. Would it not have made more sense to take their seats in the House of Commons and engage in debates on issues such as the Budget, taxation and welfare reform? There was a time when republicans pledged "No return to Stormont", yet here we all are. Perhaps one day they may take their seats at Westminster and represent the people who choose to elect them. The work done at Westminster is vital to daily life in all corners of our nation.

It is the duty of all the 18 individuals elected from Northern Ireland to go to Westminster to participate fully in debates and Committees. No matter what the result of the election on May 7 is, whether there is a clear victory for one party or a hung Parliament, the Ulster Unionist Party will not seek to exploit our fellow citizens in the rest of the United Kingdom. A stable Union is the most important result a good unionist should hope for in the election. Ulster Unionist MPs will be responsible citizens of the United Kingdom and will defend, promote and advance the Union at this time of immense uncertainty. While our MPs will seek to do the best they can for the people of Northern Ireland, we will also work in the best interests —

Photo of Jo-Anne Dobson Jo-Anne Dobson UUP

No, I have almost finished my speech.

We will also work in the best interests of our country as a whole. In the event of neither Labour nor the Conservatives securing a majority of seats in the House of Commons, the Ulster Unionist Party will not go to Downing Street holding out a begging bowl. Ulster Unionist Party values are not an auction item available to the highest bidder.

Photo of Stewart Dickson Stewart Dickson Alliance

I welcome the opportunity to take part in the Assembly's election broadcast on behalf of the SDLP, the Ulster Unionist Party, the DUP and Sinn Féin, whether they are taking their seats or not.

We have had five years of Tory-led Government in Northern Ireland. It is difficult to describe them as good years, whether it has been cuts, foreign policy or a wide range of other issues that that Government have embarked on for all citizens in the United Kingdom. I welcome the opportunity for a change of Government in Whitehall, but the wording of the motion somewhat perturbs me. It calls for Members to be returned to seek:

"the best possible outcomes for Northern Ireland".

Surely that is what the 18 Members of the last mandate in Westminster must and should have been doing. Certainly, I know one Member who has been doing that: Naomi Long, the Member for East Belfast. She has been delivering for the citizens of Northern Ireland and for the people of East Belfast. She voted in over half of the divisions in the previous Parliament, and she has been a strong voice for progressive politics in many areas. She influences, and, if Sinn Féin wants to know about welfare cuts and why it feels that its abstentionism has benefited the citizens of Northern Ireland, you only have to look to the record of an MP like Naomi Long, who has influenced legislation at Westminster to the point of change.

Of course, let us look, by stark contrast, at the party that tabled the motion. Its leader has only voted in 27 % of the Divisions. In fact, Dr McDonnell cost the taxpayer over £3,000 for every vote that he makes in Westminster. I will leave it up to the Members of this House to decide whether that is money well spent or not. How on earth can we be expected to take lessons on influencing government from the SDLP, when it only shows up for 27% of the votes? Perhaps Dr McDonnell can confirm to the electorate — of course, he is not here today — whether he will continue the shameful double-jobbing, providing a poor service to his constituents and ignoring the consensus that it is a disgraceful situation to maintain.

That brings us to the elephant in the room: the party that stands for election but does not take its seats. The party that complains, grandstands and allows us to be vulnerable to Tory cuts but cannot bring itself to do the right things and represent its constituents where it matters. All that stands in stark contrast to the Member for East Belfast, Naomi Long. She does not have two or three jobs, she has one job: representing the citizens of East Belfast with energy, enthusiasm and dedication. She will do that again in this election.

It is time that Members of Parliament, whatever party they come from in Northern Ireland, stop taking out the begging bowl and, instead, want to be returned as confident Members of Parliament to try to move this country forward. I hate to pour cold water on the coalition ambitions of the parties here, but what sane party of national government in the United Kingdom would go near either the DUP or the SDLP? The DUP is a party that talks about British emblems and symbols but wishes to exempt Northern Ireland from the social progress made in the rest of the United Kingdom and is keen to ignore British values of liberal democracy and tolerance. It is a party that does not have a single female candidate.

The SDLP is similar. It has a leader whose views on a range of issues would likely see that Member excluded from its sister party. It cannot even keep to its word here in Stormont on such key agreements as the Stormont House Agreement, so how on earth would any national Government trust it in Westminster? Of course, ultimately, Sinn Féin is just a bystander in the real politics of Westminster, never mind its baggage.

Once again, this should be about taking Northern Ireland forward, stepping out and stepping up on behalf of all the citizens of Northern Ireland. Sadly, the citizens of East Belfast cannot have the choice of Mrs Dobson's party because it is not standing there. This is not about cash; this is about building a Northern Ireland that all our citizens can be proud of, a Northern Ireland that will stop being the illiberal backwater it is so often perceived as, so that we can play a meaningful and proud role representing all the citizens of Northern Ireland.

Photo of George Robinson George Robinson DUP 4:30, 20 April 2015

First, I congratulate all my party colleagues who are outgoing Members of Westminster as they have represented Northern Ireland consistently and with dignity in the Mother of Parliaments during the last few years and more. I believe that, whether or not there is a hung Parliament, DUP Members will continue to argue Northern Ireland's case and seek the "best possible outcomes" for Northern Ireland. At least my party MPs are in their Westminster seats to argue Northern Ireland's case, week in and week out.

I am confident that MPs who are returned for the DUP will continue a tradition of not hitching their political wagon to any single political party unless the needs of Northern Ireland are being fully addressed, particularly from an economic and austerity point of view. The concerns about the block grant and welfare provision have to be part of any discussions in the event of a hung Parliament, regardless of others' wish lists. I am confident that all returned DUP MPs will have Northern Ireland's best interests at heart and will be arguing the case for the additional funding required to continue the improvement in our local economy.

Photo of Roy Beggs Roy Beggs UUP

Will the Member give way?

Photo of George Robinson George Robinson DUP

I am finished.

Photo of Christopher Hazzard Christopher Hazzard Sinn Féin

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I was not expecting to be called so quickly.

Coming into the Chamber for the debate this evening, I prepared myself to listen to all the great achievements that have been grasped from the hands of power at Westminster by the various parties. I am not surprised, however, that I have not heard anything. The BBC leaders' debate last week featuring the parties from Britain is a stark illustration of the complete failure of local parties to make any impact whatsoever at Westminster. There was no voice and no concern for local issues, and I thought that it was a very pertinent example of how local issues simply do not hit the political radar when it comes to the Westminster political elite. To pretend anything else is a complete fallacy, and I think that parties are simply horse-trading for votes ahead of an election when they talk about being kingmakers.

The DUP likes to believe that it will be the kingmaker in a new Government; it talks itself up, but it is complete nonsense. I think that there is an awakening in Britain as well, in that people are starting to realise and to ask who exactly they will be getting into bed with when it comes to the DUP. It is a party that would undoubtedly look to set back the clock on civil rights across these islands; it is a party that, in recent weeks, has been involved in race rows; and some of its leadership figures believe that the earth is not older than 6,000 years. I think that that is starting to resonate in Britain and that people are starting to ask who the DUP is. This is the party, of course, that, amongst its leadership, has climate change deniers as well. I think that some of the questions will start to shine a light.

From the SDLP, there is such hypocrisy. Last week, when its leader was questioned on his very, very poor attendance record, he said that his constituents do not want to see him sitting in Westminster. That is exactly what Sinn Féin is saying. You are wasting your time talking to yourself on the green Benches at Westminster. Anything that people have gathered has been gathered from direct negotiations, be it the devolution of policing and justice powers or the devolution of corporation tax that is eventually coming. It has been direct negotiations with the British Government, and that is exactly what it is.

My colleague has outlined some of the issues around the principles of this. It goes without saying that a British Parliament never has, does not, and never will have any right to adjudicate over Irish affairs. We stand firmly behind that. It is one of the reasons why, as a party, we received the most votes at the Westminster election last year. It is not as if, as one of the Members claimed recently, we are somehow conning the electorate. We go to the electorate as proud Irish republicans. Since Countess Markievicz was elected the first female to the Westminster Parliament and did not take her seat, we do not take our seats at Westminster.

Photo of Christopher Hazzard Christopher Hazzard Sinn Féin

I will not be giving way, no. We will not be taking our seats at Westminster: it is as simple as that.

I am not surprised at the SDLP. I know that when the late Eddie McGrady died, Seamus Mallon was on the radio talking about how they used to miss votes at Westminster because they were off seeing matinees in the West End in London. Then they have the cheek to say that we are somehow not representing our party or constituents if we are not over in Westminster. Well, you are not even in Westminster. You are at West End matinees and everywhere else. It is about being truthful to the electorate and to the people we represent.

It is important that we look to repatriate as many powers as possible away from the London-centric elite and back home to Ireland, because it is here in Ireland that we are going to build the society that the previous Member was talking about, in the interests of our people.

Photo of Dominic Bradley Dominic Bradley Social Democratic and Labour Party

Go raibh míle maith agat a Cheann Comhairle as an deis labhairt sa díospóireacht seo inniu. I will begin by responding to some of the points made by other Members. Ms McCorley and Mr Dickson have criticised Alasdair McDonnell's attendance record at Westminster. Alasdair McDonnell has been at Westminster for 100% of the votes on Northern Ireland, which is where he is elected to represent. He is not elected to represent north-east England or south-west England: he is representing South Belfast. Any vote pertinent to that region has been attended and actively participated in by Dr McDonnell.

Sinn Féin makes much of its view that it does not recognise the British Parliament, yet we have seen its members, down through the years, running back and forth to Downing Street. That is a de facto recognition of the British Government.

Photo of David McIlveen David McIlveen DUP

I thank the Member for giving way. Would the Member agree with me that Sinn Féin appears to have some degree of amnesia when it comes to the issue of what goes on in this place? The Education Bill, which was recently brought forward by the previous Member's Minister, starts with the words:

"BE IT ENACTED ... by the Northern Ireland Assembly and assented to by Her Majesty".

Surely this is a clear indication that to make a viewpoint that the British have no say in the affairs of Northern Ireland is utterly insane.

Photo of Mitchel McLaughlin Mitchel McLaughlin Speaker

The Member has an extra minute.

Photo of Dominic Bradley Dominic Bradley Social Democratic and Labour Party

I thank the Member for his intervention. Hypocrisy has never troubled Sinn Féin in the past, and I do not see why it should begin to trouble it now. Ms McCorley makes much of the fact that negotiations are carried on between the parties here, but what does she say after that?

"it does not matter that ... people then reneged on their agreements".

What a statement to make. I am sure the Irish language community, who have no Irish language Act because people reneged on their agreements, will not welcome that statement.

The descent by Mr Hazzard into insulting the memory of Eddie McGrady is hardly worth comment. It speaks for itself.

Photo of Dolores Kelly Dolores Kelly Social Democratic and Labour Party

Does the Member agree that it is no wonder that the electorate is confused over Sinn Féin's stance of not taking its seats at Westminster, when it has taken its seats here and in the Dáil, even though, over the years, it said it would not do so. Is it not the case that the only time that Sinn Féin negotiates with the British is for an on-the-runs letter or a royal prerogative of mercy?

Photo of Dominic Bradley Dominic Bradley Social Democratic and Labour Party

The Member makes very good points. There is little doubt that we will be facing a hung Parliament and that MPs returned from this region will play a decisive role in the formation of a new Government.

David Cameron wants votes from the DUP to add to a coalition with UKIP. Sinn Féin, of course, will not be there and will make things easier for the Tories — that is, if it will not be there. There seems to be some confusion about that. Michelle Gildernew says, "Never say never". Mickey Brady says, "The policy is always open to review", just as it was in the case of Leinster House or just as it was in the case of this House. These are the people who used to sing:

"take it down from the mast, Irish traitors".

They used to sing that to the Irish Labour Party, Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael. Now they are busting their backs to get into Leinster House. We can see who makes the U-turns. It is certainly clear to me.

The SDLP is the only —

Photo of Dominic Bradley Dominic Bradley Social Democratic and Labour Party

You did not give way to Mrs Kelly, so I do not see why I should give way to you.

The SDLP is the only party in this region that has said that it will be there with the Scottish Nationalist Party, with the Welsh nationalist party, Plaid Cymru, and with the Greens to work with the Labour Party to ensure that it does the right thing by our people here. We will hold the Labour Party true to its values and ensure that we begin phase 2 of the peace process — the prosperity process. We clearly outlined that in our manifesto.

We will stand against the serious threat UKIP poses to our relationship with Europe. To judge UKIP, all we have to do is look at some of its representatives here in Northern Ireland. I need say no more. Even more than England, Scotland and Wales, we here have a deep and unique link with Europe, mainly because of our trade relationship with the Republic. Not many people will be aware of this, but the Republic is the biggest source of inward investment for Northern Ireland. Any change in the link with Europe would be devastating for us here, and people on all sides of the House should remember that.

The SDLP has stood firm on welfare reform and will continue to do so in the next Parliament. Our MPs voted against Tory Budgets of fiscal responsibility, which would enforce £30 billion of cuts on the next Government —

Photo of Mitchel McLaughlin Mitchel McLaughlin Speaker

Thank you. The Member's time is up.

Photo of Stewart Dickson Stewart Dickson Alliance

Will the Member give way for a moment?

Photo of Mitchel McLaughlin Mitchel McLaughlin Speaker

The Member's time is up.

Photo of Dominic Bradley Dominic Bradley Social Democratic and Labour Party

We voted against the welfare cap, the bedroom tax, and we will do so again. Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Photo of Lord Maurice Morrow Lord Maurice Morrow DUP

We as a party will obviously support the motion. I congratulate the SDLP on coming to the reality of the situation. It has been denied up until today's debate. It is simply this: yes, potentially, the DUP will have a big influence on the forming of the next Government and, indeed, will perhaps even decide who will be Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. I say to the SDLP, "Well done. You were a wee bit slow in coming to it, but, nevertheless, you are there now".

It was interesting to listen to Mr Hazzard. He was bouncing about, hitting everybody and sundry as he thought. This thought came into my head: when you throw a stone into a pack of dogs, you always know the one you have hit. It is the one that gowls the loudest. That is just how Mr Hazzard came across. He obviously now sees the new dawn breaking, but his colleague Michelle Gildernew seems to be a step ahead of him, because she is already paving the way for Sinn Féin to do another about-turn and U-turn. She has said, "We will never say never to taking our seats in Westminster". Now, of course, that is not what Mr Hazzard is saying; he can never see the day when Michelle Gildernew and co will go in and take their seats. Michelle Gildernew can see the day coming, and maybe Mr Brady agrees with her; I do not know. We will perhaps hear from him on that subject later.

It is patently obvious that, when things become clear after this election and when all is said and done, it will be the DUP that will have the greatest influence of any party from Northern Ireland. That has been accepted, I think, by everybody who has spoken. They might not have used those words, but that is quite clear. Why do we say that? We say it because we know that Sinn Féin, at the present time and perhaps for the next Parliament anyway, has said that it will not take its seats. So it goes out and gets people to elect it not to take its seats.

Photo of Lord Maurice Morrow Lord Maurice Morrow DUP

Right, OK. Come on.

Photo of Stewart Dickson Stewart Dickson Alliance

On the point of Sinn Féin not taking its seats, I am sure that Lord Morrow will agree with me that the hundreds of thousands of pounds that have been taken by way of expenses for those seats that are not taken in Westminster is a sort of halfway house between taking your seat and not taking your seat. Perhaps he would like to comment on the sums of money that have been put into the coffers of Sinn Féin by the British Government and the British Parliament that they will not take their seats in.

Photo of Mitchel McLaughlin Mitchel McLaughlin Speaker

The Member has an extra minute.

Photo of Lord Maurice Morrow Lord Maurice Morrow DUP

Thank you. Mr Dickson made a very good point. He does not always make good points, but he has done it today.

[Laughter.]

Sinn Féin not taking only goes so far: when it comes to taking the cash, we will have that all right. We like that; we like the smell of that and we like the pounds. Therefore, the expenses are very good, and they will have those.

Returning to the debate, the reason why we say that a strong DUP team will have the biggest influence of any party in Northern Ireland is simple. The SDLP have already made it very clear that they are tied to the Labour Party, so they are already bought and sold. Sinn Féin will not be there, as we have said, at least for this Parliament. All the other parties are far too small and insignificant and so will have absolutely no influence. They will take their seats, and rightly so, but they will have absolutely no influence at all. Therefore, in a hung Parliament, it will be left to the DUP, potentially, to be kingmakers. There are those who might want to deny that, but reality sometimes speaks much louder.

In the motion, we have an opportunity, and that is why we are enthusiastic about voting for it. The motion states very clearly that it:

"further notes that the votes of Members of Parliament from Northern Ireland could be critical in relation to the formation of the next Westminster Government".

Every pundit and opinion poll to date has suggested that it will most likely be a hung Parliament. All the pollsters are united on that issue. Therefore, we can see that Northern Ireland could and maybe will have a real influence after the next election.

Mr Dickson spoke about the Member who will leave her seat on 7 May, who, he said, has put in a great performance. Well, all good things come to an end, and that will be the case for Naomi on 7 May. However, there are others. Her successor will carry on and do a superb job in the Houses of Parliament.

Sinn Féin tells us that they are opposed to austerity and do not want welfare cuts or anything like that. What did they do to try to stop them? Absolutely nothing. They would not speak to the Government, the people who make those decisions, and it was left to the DUP and others to try to influence the Government and say that the austerity measures were too steep. The result was that we were influential in making many changes to those measures. Hence, they let down the working-class people of Northern Ireland, whom they claim to represent.

Photo of Mitchel McLaughlin Mitchel McLaughlin Speaker

The Member's time is almost up.

Photo of Lord Maurice Morrow Lord Maurice Morrow DUP

They turned their head, looked the other way and walked away, but, come the new Parliament, the DUP will not do that. We will stand up tall and strong for the people of Northern Ireland. The House can be assured of that.

Photo of Fearghal McKinney Fearghal McKinney Social Democratic and Labour Party

I begin by recognising the opposition to the motion of Sinn Féin. Rosie McCorley stuck rigidly to her view. It has been said by other Members who spoke that perhaps she and Chris Hazzard could have had a conversation with Mickey Brady, who is sitting two seats down, or with Michelle Gildernew in Fermanagh and South Tyrone.

The comments from the Sinn Féin Members in this room are fixed; they have said that they will not take their seats. Therefore, are they saying, when the opportunity comes, as it has in the past, for elected Members from Northern Ireland to go to Westminster to vote against war, that Sinn Féin will reject that opportunity?

Well, you have heard it here. Sinn Féin would be given the opportunity to vote against war, like the SDLP did.

Photo of Christopher Hazzard Christopher Hazzard Sinn Féin

You saved Iraq, all right.

Photo of Fearghal McKinney Fearghal McKinney Social Democratic and Labour Party

And you sat in your seats, all right, but they were in comfy back kitchens somewhere and you had no impact. Are you also saying that, given the opportunity of taking the concerns of the hard-pressed people of Northern Ireland and the vulnerable people of West Belfast, North Belfast, Derry and Strabane right to the heart of those who write the cheques, Chris Hazzard, were he elected in South Down, would not go and defend those people? Not that he will get elected in South Down, now that we are into party election broadcasts.

Photo of Christopher Hazzard Christopher Hazzard Sinn Féin

The Member's sister party was in power for over a decade. Name me one time that your party was able to get a favour for vulnerable people in the North.

Photo of Fearghal McKinney Fearghal McKinney Social Democratic and Labour Party

You have done absolutely nothing. We have —

Photo of Christopher Hazzard Christopher Hazzard Sinn Féin

Your sister party was in power for over a decade —

Photo of Mitchel McLaughlin Mitchel McLaughlin Speaker

Order. All comments must be made through the Chair.

Photo of Fearghal McKinney Fearghal McKinney Social Democratic and Labour Party

I will answer it. Chris Hazzard is enjoying a life here in politics that follows 40 years of violence that his party supported and which the SDLP said had to come to an end. We said that politics was the only answer and that peace was the only answer. During the political process, we said that power-sharing was the way forward. What did Sinn Féin say about that? They rejected it all and came kicking and screaming to it. What did we do through our influence at Westminster? We furthered that proposition, and we helped deliver devolution here.

What we need to do now is make sure that devolution is beginning to work. How can we do that when the block grant is being strangled by a Tory system that would be supported by the DUP, by the way? Remember, once again, that it is also being supported by a vote for Sinn Féin. A Sinn Féin vote in an abstentionist position gives more power to the Tories to cut.

[Interruption.]

You might laugh, Chris, but do not laugh when you meet the people from the Downe Hospital tomorrow who will have to listen to you on the one hand saying, "We feel your pain" but on the other saying that you will do nothing about it.

Photo of Christopher Hazzard Christopher Hazzard Sinn Féin

The Member has raised health. When the Health and Social Care (Reform) Bill went through the Assembly, Margaret Ritchie was missing for 15 of the 16 votes. What did Margaret Ritchie do for health when it came to it?

Photo of Fearghal McKinney Fearghal McKinney Social Democratic and Labour Party

Margaret Ritchie's record in standing up for the people of South Down does not take any criticism whatever. You will not be there, and, by saying what you are saying, you make an argument for going. Maybe now you are listening to Michelle Gildernew, and maybe now Mickey Brady would like to intervene and explain where he stands in relation to all this.

Photo of Mickey Brady Mickey Brady Sinn Féin

Will the Member give way and I will explain? The remarks I made were taken totally out of context. When asked the question, I said, "All policies can be reviewed" — "all policies", not "a policy". I wish that people would stop misquoting me because it suits their purposes.

Photo of Fearghal McKinney Fearghal McKinney Social Democratic and Labour Party

And that policy, of course, will include abstentionism or non-abstentionism, eventually, potentially, maybe.

I return to the comments of the proposer of the motion, Mr Colum Eastwood, who spelled out exactly what the situation here is. The poll of polls in the newspapers at the weekend showed that the Tories and Labour are both on 34%. There will be a hung Parliament, potentially. While the DUP spells out everything that that will do for them potentially, Colum has articulated what, I think, is at the core of a lot of this. A lot of inequality is emerging out of the Westminster dialogue or concept, and that inequality is affecting the north of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. There is room for a Celtic coalition. Through that vehicle, there is room for the argument that it is undermining our vulnerable people, our economy and our people in general to be put forward. A Labour Government with that number of seats and with conversations from us will be able to put a strong case.

Photo of Dominic Bradley Dominic Bradley Social Democratic and Labour Party

Does the Member agree that it is time that the peace dividend, which was much talked about in the past, was delivered? Does he also agree that the beginning of the next Parliament will be a good occasion to argue and ensure that that peace dividend comes? All that we have had until now is sleight of hand in an economic pact, and no real new money has come.

Photo of Fearghal McKinney Fearghal McKinney Social Democratic and Labour Party

I value the Member's contribution. The reality is that we sit here today with an economy that is 66% public sector and 34% private sector. It is a weakened situation and is exactly the reverse of the Republic of Ireland. That 66% public sector is being constrained, and it would be constrained further by a Tory Government. As the SDLP articulated in its manifesto and will articulate going forward, we want a prosperity process. Remember, as I said, that it was an SDLP problem-solving approach that made the difference and said that violence would not pay and that, if anything, violence was destroying this place and pushing a united Ireland even further away. The aftermath of that has continued to do so. You only have to look at the strain on our health service and on our people with major mental health difficulties. You have the republican movement to thank for much of that.

Photo of Dolores Kelly Dolores Kelly Social Democratic and Labour Party

Like me, has the Member discovered on the doorstep that, by and large, people are concerned mostly about our public sector, health, education and good services? At least our party stood up and voted against the Budget that Sinn Féin endorsed in recent Assembly debates.

Photo of Fearghal McKinney Fearghal McKinney Social Democratic and Labour Party

Sinn Féin would have loved the opportunity to say that it voted against that in Westminster, but it cannot do that, because it will not take its seats. That is why it loves the concept of taking all that into a side-deal scenario.

Photo of Dolores Kelly Dolores Kelly Social Democratic and Labour Party

They are there for the wine receptions.

Photo of Fearghal McKinney Fearghal McKinney Social Democratic and Labour Party

You are right: they are there for the wine receptions, but they would love to take it off into a side-deal scenario where they could try to negotiate for themselves — ourselves alone — but not for the people of Northern Ireland and not for ambition for here.

All those years ago, it was the SDLP who said that violence was wrong. It was our plan for power-sharing. Now that you are quoting Séamus Mallon, you will recall "Sunningdale for slow learners". It was our plan for power-sharing way back in the 1970s that culminated in the political developments in the later part of the last century.

Mr Bradley's point is absolutely right: the Westminster Government employed, if you like, a fire-and-forget policy for devolution. They gave us the power, and now they are cutting the purse strings. The SDLP, for one, will be at the forefront against that agenda in Westminster, not sitting in a back kitchen.

Photo of Pat Sheehan Pat Sheehan Sinn Féin

What have you been doing up to now?

Photo of Fearghal McKinney Fearghal McKinney Social Democratic and Labour Party

We have been doing it and winning the arguments. We will continue.

Photo of Mitchel McLaughlin Mitchel McLaughlin Speaker

Will the Member bring his remarks to a close?

Photo of Fearghal McKinney Fearghal McKinney Social Democratic and Labour Party

When we said, "End violence", you all said no. You all said that it would not be power-sharing. Now you are all saying no when we talk about a prosperity process. We will win the argument.

Question put.

Photo of Mitchel McLaughlin Mitchel McLaughlin Speaker

Standing Order 27(4) provides that where, within a reasonable time:

"two tellers for one side but not the other have been nominated, the determination of the Assembly shall be that of the side which has nominated the two tellers".

The motion is passed.

Resolved:

That this Assembly notes the potential for a hung Parliament following the Westminster elections; further notes that the votes of Members of Parliament from Northern Ireland could be critical in relation to the formation of the next Westminster Government; and calls on all Members of Parliament returned from Northern Ireland to play their full part in achieving the best possible outcomes for Northern Ireland, in particular in relation to the block grant and welfare provisions.

Adjourned at 5.05 pm.