1. asked the Minister of Justice for an update on the impact of his decision to reduce fees paid to lawyers in legal aid cases.         (AQO 149/11-15)

4. asked the Minister of Justice what action he is taking to resolve the dispute about legal aid fees. (AQO 152/11-15)

With permission, Mr Deputy Speaker, I will answer questions 1 and 4 together. The new remuneration arrangements came into effect on 13 April 2011. Since then and up to 24 June, 254 defendants have been left without representation in Crown Court cases due to the withdrawal of the solicitors’ firms that had previously represented them. A further 19 defendants may be unrepresented in cases where 13 firms have not notified the court service that they may have withdrawn, but no defence certificate for legal aid in the Crown Court proceedings has been applied for.

My officials in the Courts and Tribunals Service have written to all solicitors’ firms in Northern Ireland asking whether they are willing to take on Crown Court work under the new remuneration arrangements. They have compiled a list of firms willing to carry out legally aided Crown Court work. Eight firms are on the list. The list has been provided to all defendants who are unrepresented and to defendants who, it is thought, may not have representation. The Courts and Tribunals Service has also compiled a list of barristers who are willing to work at the new rates, including barristers from outside Northern Ireland. The list has been provided to any solicitor who is experiencing difficulty in instructing counsel. In addition, three firms of solicitors from England and Wales have approached the Courts and Tribunals Service to ask about being included on the list. We are seeking to confirm whether the Law Society will allow them to take on work in Northern Ireland.

I thank the Minister for his response. I assure him of my support and that of my colleagues on this side of the Chamber in his attempt to lower Northern Ireland’s disgracefully large legal aid bill. In seeking an alternative way forward, has the Minister considered instigating a US-style public defender’s office? In pursuing and examining that, has he considered how easy that might be to do?

I thank Mr Hamilton for his supplementary question. I am considering all possible options to ensure that defendants have access to justice. It is my hope and my effort to date to ensure that defendants obtain solicitors and barristers under the usual arrangements who are prepared to work at the new legally enforced rates of remuneration. I could also invite solicitors and barristers from outside Northern Ireland to take on Crown Court work on the same basis as applies. As I have said already, we have had indications of interest, without seeking them, from firms of solicitors in England and Wales that are keen to work here.

Another option would be for the Legal Services Commission to arrange for legal advice and representation to be provided directly to unrepresented defendants. Mr Hamilton referred to a US-style public defender’s system. I suspect that that might create concerns about the quality of justice; however, it already operates successfully in part in England and Wales. The legislation is already in place under the Access to Justice (Northern Ireland) Order 2003 for the Legal Services Commission to engage directly should it wish and should it be necessary to ensure access to justice for defendants.

I thank the Minister for his answer to that very interesting question from my colleague Simon Hamilton. The Minister has said previously that, if we could not get a resolution to the current situation, he would take another look at the options. From the tone of what the Minister said, I gather that he is either being driven or is willingly looking outside the box on the issue. Does one of those options not include a compromise with local lawyers, or does he have options, other than those that he stated, that would be a resolution? Does he see that forthcoming?

I thank Mr McNarry for his supplementary question. He talked about the possibility of compromise. However, the House should be aware that the new rates of pay under the regulations are now in force. They are legally in place because the regulations were laid before the House and were accepted by the Committee and, by default, by the House as a whole. Therefore, there is no compromise on changing the rates. There is no way that David Ford, by the stroke of a pen, can give solicitors and barristers what they want. The compromise — [Interruption.] There is no legal process by which the Minister could make a compromise, if that is what is being talked about.

There is also no way in which, within budget, we could pay the rates that are sought by certain members of the legal profession. I have offered a significantly earlier than usual review of the new rates to see where there are anomalies and to see whether there are issues that need to be addressed in reforming the rates that are now in force. However, that requires solicitors and barristers to work normally, so that we can ascertain what the facts of the case are. I believe that that is a compromise. That is what I have offered to the Bar Council and the Law Society, and my officials have written to them about the detail of it. I hope that we will see constructive engagement in order that we will see defendants being represented and victims of crime seeing their cases proceed speedily.

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his answer. Can the Minister give an assurance that defendants’ trials will not be unduly delayed as a result of this issue?

I thank the Member for asking a question about what is clearly an important issue for defendants and victims. It is important for them to see that the cases are proceeded with. Given where we are and because most of these Crown Court cases are unlikely to proceed before September or October at the earliest, the reality is that there is no significant delay at the moment, although there is the potential that some people could be delayed in making a valid bail application, if they are not properly represented. As my first priority, I am seeking to get the existing system working properly, with Northern Ireland solicitors and barristers carrying out the duties at the rates of remuneration that are now in force. If that does not turn out to be the case, I will certainly not shrink from other options to ensure that there is access to justice for defendants and justice being seen to be done for victims.

It is unhelpful for the Minister to adopt an uncompromising approach to this problem. It would be better if the Minister reopened discussions with the Law Society and the Bar Council to see whether there is some basis for a compromise, as Mr McNarry suggested, on the basis of their proposals, which—

I ask the Member to come to a question.

— were verified as being within budget.

I fear that Mr Maginness has not appreciated the point that I have tried to make: the new regulations are in force, and the Assembly has accepted the new rates of remuneration. Therefore, the suggestion that I am uncompromising is completely off the mark. The simple position is that proposals were put forward by the Department, accepted by the Committee and not rejected by the Assembly and, therefore, have the force of law. No compromise can be made about those rates.

The compromise is that I have offered an early review. We will see how the arrangements work and whether there are anomalies. I have engaged with the Law Society and the Bar Council; I have offered them that. I have asked my officials to engage in detail with them, and that is the compromise. The compromise is not to suggest somehow that I should accept from the two professional bodies a proposal that was uncosted, could not be costed, would have significantly exceeded the budget available for legal aid and would have resulted in cost pressures being met from other aspects of public expenditure in Northern Ireland that, I believe, deserve equal priority. I suspect that few Members would wish to see us shifting funds from the budget for health and social services, for example, into the funding of legal aid, when Northern Ireland will still have the most generous system in western Europe.

With regard to the unfortunate situation that has arisen, has the Minister any concern about the impact on the quality of justice? I ask him to bear in mind the incident in Newry Crown Court on 9 June, when a novice solicitor made the schoolboy error of being willing to see someone returned on a charge where they could face 14 years’ imprisonment, without ever having received or read the papers in the case. Is there not a live concern, therefore, about the impact on the quality of justice? Might that concern be intensified if —

One question please.

— if, during this dispute, there are difficulties dealing with custody interviews?

I am not quite sure precisely what Mr Allister meant by his last remark. Let me make it clear that I am not here to discuss any individual case. What is absolutely clear is that I am committed to ensuring access to justice and the best quality of justice, but it also has to be the best quality of justice that is affordable. The simple position is that it was not possible, with the budget that I am obliged to live within, to meet the rates of remuneration requested by certain solicitors and certain members of the Bar. I am seeking to provide the highest possible quality of justice within a budget, not on an open-ended expenditure list.