OFMDFM: ‘Spotlight’ Programme

Question for  Urgent Oral Answer – in the Northern Ireland Assembly at 3:30 pm on 11 January 2010.

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Photo of William Hay William Hay Speaker 3:30, 11 January 2010

Order. For those Members who were absent, I wish to repeat to the House what I announced earlier this afternoon. I have received written notice from the First Minister, Peter Robinson, that under section 16(A)11 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, he has designated Mrs Arlene Foster, Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment, to exercise the functions of the office of First Minister. That designation takes immediate effect. Having made that announcement, I arranged for a letter to be made available in the Business Office and met with the Whips at 3.00 pm to discuss any questions that they may have had about the letter. I encourage Members to speak to the party Whips if there are any other matters that they may need clarified.

As I said to the House earlier, I received notification of a question for urgent oral answer this morning, which I gave some consideration to and decided to accept. I warn Members from all sides of the House that I am not looking for statements from them. That is vitally important. What I am looking for are questions to what the original question is all about. I do not want Members to stray outside the question that we are debating on the Floor this afternoon. It is important that that is clear. Let us not have further statements from Members. Let us, as far as possible, have questions to the original question. If all that is clear, we shall proceed.

I have received notice of a question for urgent oral answer under Standing Order 20A to the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister.

Ms Ní Chuilín asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister to outline to the Assembly any possible implications for OFMDFM in respect of allegations relating to financial matters made by the BBC ‘Spotlight’ programme

Photo of Arlene Foster Arlene Foster DUP

Earlier today, the First Minister, pursuant to section 16A(11) of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, wrote to you, the Presiding Officer, designating me to carry out the functions of the office of First Minister. During this period, I will carry out those functions while the First Minister helps to deal with his wife’s medical problems. I have already discussed handling arrangements with the deputy First Minister and how the work of the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister will be carried out in the coming weeks. On behalf of the First Minister, I want to make it clear that he entirely rejects the sole allegation made by the BBC ‘Spotlight’ programme and that he will be seeking to clear his name in the days that lie ahead.

Photo of Carál Ní Chuilín Carál Ní Chuilín Sinn Féin

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I would like to wish Minister Foster well. My rationale for tabling the question is not the Robinsons’ private family matters. Serious allegations were raised in the BBC ‘Spotlight’ programme, and there is an issue of public confidence. It is crucially important that the outstanding political issues are resolved and resolved speedily. As well as everything else that needs to be cleared up, that means getting an early date for the transfer of powers on policing and justice. There is a limited time frame in which to sort out these matters.

The BBC ‘Spotlight’ programme raised questions that are serious in their nature. They are serious political questions that need to be responded to very, very quickly, as well as writing to the Committee on Standards and Privileges about how these matters will be resolved. For me, other MLAs in the House and, indeed, public confidence, I would like to ask the Minister —

Photo of William Hay William Hay Speaker

Order, order. I ask the Member, and I emphasise the point to all Members, to be very careful. It is vitally important that, as far as possible, Members keep to the original question. I am not trying to stifle debate in the Chamber. I am just asking the Member to be careful in what question is asked to the Minister; that is all that I am saying.

Photo of Carál Ní Chuilín Carál Ní Chuilín Sinn Féin

In conclusion, in respect of the allegations relating to the financial matters made by the BBC in the ‘Spotlight’ programme — [Interruption.]

Photo of Carál Ní Chuilín Carál Ní Chuilín Sinn Féin

Will the Minister assure me as an MLA, other Members in the House and, indeed, the public on how a speedy conclusion can be made to bring about transparency and a robust response?

Photo of Arlene Foster Arlene Foster DUP

I thank the Member for her question. First of all, the Departmental Solicitor’s Office has already considered the allegations made in the ‘Spotlight’ programme and advised Peter Robinson that he was not in breach of the ministerial code, the Pledge of Office, the ministerial code of conduct or the seven principles of public life. It is important to say that first of all. As well as that, Peter Robinson has now written to the Chairpersons of the Committees on Standards and Privileges in both Westminster and the Assembly to ask them to conduct a full investigation into the allegation made by the BBC ‘Spotlight’ programme. It needs to be made very clear that the process that the First Minister has asked to be initiated involving senior counsel is not intended to be an alternative to other processes that may, and undoubtedly will, be carried out.

However, I will go to the heart of the Member’s question: the First Minister very much believes that an early indication needs to be given in relation to the allegations. I personally am confident, and my party is very confident, that this will confirm that Peter Robinson, the First Minister, acted entirely properly at all times. But, let us have that, and let us have it quickly, because we need to move on. The Member made reference to other issues that need to be dealt with. She is absolutely right: other issues need to be dealt with. Frankly, this is all a distraction for the people of Northern Ireland when we have other issues to deal with. I refer particularly to the issue that was mentioned first in the House earlier today: the attempted murder of a police officer.

That is why we need to really focus on what is going on here. We will deal with the issues, but there are issues more important to the people of Northern Ireland to be dealt with, and I say that very strongly.

Photo of Danny Kennedy Danny Kennedy UUP

I am grateful for the opportunity to ask a question on behalf of the OFMDFM Committee and then to follow up from a party political perspective. I thank the interim First Minister for taking questions today, and I congratulate her on her — even temporary — appointment.

When does the Acting First Minister expect the departmental investigation to present the findings? Will my Committee be briefed on the investigation and subsequent findings? In respect of my party’s considerations, there are obviously matters of concern that the ‘Spotlight’ programme highlighted. The ones of a personal nature should, in the view of my party and me, remain purely private matters for the Robinson family. We wish them well as they attempt to resolve those.

The second matter is, of course, of a more public nature. Will the Acting First Minister confirm whether public resources are being utilised in the investigation that the First Minister has instigated? Will she confirm whether the deputy First Minister has agreed to the process? Can she explain how the investigation that is under way will be seen as independent and considered as such? Will she also confirm whether the investigation is being conducted in a manner that was advised by OFMDFM officials? Finally, will the Acting First Minister confirm how long she can act as a caretaker in charge of OFMDFM?

Photo of Arlene Foster Arlene Foster DUP

In relation to that last question, the Member is all too aware of the legislation, as, indeed, is the rest of this House. I made it very clear when I opened my statement that this is a temporary arrangement. It is something that his party should be very much aware of because, in the past, somebody who was very much in my position as Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment acted on behalf of the First Minister. There have also been occasions, although there was no formal arrangement, as I under­stand it, when the Minister of Agriculture was assisted by colleagues during her confinement due to her maternity.

Legal advice has already been sought, and I have made reference to the fact that it has already been given back to the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister. Two opinions have been received from the Departmental Solicitor’s Office that indicate that there was no breach of various codes and standards. There will be another departmental investigation set up, which we want to happen very quickly so that we can have that dealt with. I have already indicated that Peter has written to the Assembly Ombudsman and the Committee here, and to the parliamentary Committee in Westminster.

Let us be very clear: Peter Robinson is going to clear his name. I have no doubt about that. One sole allegation was made. That sole allegation will be dealt with, and I want to be very clear about that. My standing here is very much temporary. I do it in the knowledge that when Peter comes back, he will come back with a clear record.

Photo of Nigel Dodds Nigel Dodds Shadow Spokesperson (Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform), Without portfolio, Shadow Spokesperson (Justice), Shadow DUP Spokesperson (Without Portfolio)

I wish the Minister well in her extra responsibilities that she has taken on. The Members on these Benches know that she will be able to carry out those functions extremely competently, given her previous record in ministerial office. We wish Mrs Foster well in her role, alongside, of course, the First Minister, who will continue to play an active role in relation to addressing many of the challenging and difficult issues that remain to be addressed in the political process.

Will the Minister confirm that there is absolutely no reason whatsoever that the work of her Department, that of OFMDFM or that of the Northern Ireland Government should be in any way impaired or set back as a result of this development and that we will be able to continue to move forward, delivering on behalf of those people of Northern Ireland who sent us here, while concentrating on the real and important issues that she outlined and that concern people most?

Does she further agree that it is absolutely vital that, as well as allowing all the necessary proper investigations and examinations to take place, it is in everybody’s interest to provide quickly whatever extra assurance those particular departmental investigations can give? The hope is that those investigations will be concluded very speedily and that we will see the First Minister resume his duties in the House as quickly as possible.

Photo of Arlene Foster Arlene Foster DUP 3:45, 11 January 2010

I am sure it is the hope and desire of the entire House that the First Minister will be able to come back to his post as quickly as possible.

So far as the work of OFMDFM is concerned, I actually think that Peter has sent out a very important signal today of the importance that he attaches to his role in the Executive and the Assembly for the benefit of the people of Northern Ireland. He feels that, temporarily, he would not be able to focus entirely on his role. Those of us who know him know that he devotes his life to politics, and therefore he felt that he could not do that, so that is why he has asked me to do this on a temporary basis, with the support of my colleagues all around me, and of that I have no doubt.

Photo of Mark Durkan Mark Durkan Leader of the Social Democratic & Labour Party

I wish the Minister well with the added responsibilities that have now been thrust upon her. I wish not only her but the deputy First Minister well in the conduct of matters over the coming weeks in circumstances that will not be easy for him either. We need to recognise that and that there will be operational working constraints and difficulties created in this situation.

Will the Minister indicate whether advice was offered by the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister to the First and deputy First Minister when they arrived in their respective offices on Friday, or were all the initiatives in seeking meetings with the Departmental Solicitor’s Office left entirely to the Ministers themselves? How were the inquiries that were established or commissioned, how were they authorised or approved in terns of departmental procedures, spending or any other implications, including precedent?

I note that the Minister indicated that she will work to discharge her responsibilities and that she has already met the deputy First Minister. Will she indicate whether she envisages following through on the matters that were raised in the letter from the First Minister and the deputy First Minister of 2 December to all MLAs? Will there be meetings with all the party leaders and others with a view to moving things forward on the devolution of justice and policing, or are there limits to the degree to which she will operate the functions of the Department and the joint office, given that the Assembly has recently legislated to provide that office with more powers to bring forward the devolution of justice and policing?

Photo of Arlene Foster Arlene Foster DUP

I simply do not know the answer to the first part of the Member’s question. I am quite sure that we can work that out by following it up in written correspondence. From my own knowledge Friday was a rather fraught day, as I am sure the Member will know. Meetings did not take place then, but they have taken place today, and those will be followed up.

On the other issue that the Member mentioned, one of the reasons why Peter asked me to act up as First Minister was that, obviously, he had other matters to deal with. However, he felt that doing so would allow him to devote any time that he did have to the issue of policing and justice and that I would deal with the official, the routine issues of the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister. Let us not forget that negotiations — progress — in relation to policing and justice is not an official remit of the office of First Minister, but rather, it is dealt with through political negotiations. Therefore, the fact that I am dealing with these issues means that there is more space allowed in which to deal with the other issues.

Photo of David Ford David Ford Alliance

On behalf of my colleagues, I wish the Minister well with her new responsibilities. In these circumstances, I am not sure whether the word “congratulations” is appropriate, but we certainly wish her well.

She mentioned the business with which we started in the Assembly today; the attempted murder of Constable Peadar Heffron in Antrim on Friday, and she emphasised the importance of seeing these institutions working well together. I am a bit perturbed by the answer that she has just given to Mark Durkan. The suggestion that a Minister who is stepping down because he has to clear his name and, because of family concerns, is somehow going to have the time to carry forward the work on the devolution of justice, while she deals with what she described as routine matters, causes me considerable concern. Will she give us an assurance that she will not be a caretaker Minister, but that she will be an active Minister and will actively pursue all that needs to be done to see these institutions working well and delivering for the people of Northern Ireland and to show the dissidents that politics can work?

Photo of Arlene Foster Arlene Foster DUP

Thank you very much. I wholeheartedly agree that devolution is in the best interests of all the people of Northern Ireland, which is one of the reasons why I firmly believe in this place; whereas others outside this place would say otherwise.

I am sorry that the Member picked me up wrongly. Today, the Assembly party, the parliamentary party and the European Member all said very, very strongly that Peter should remain as our party leader. As party leader, he has responsibilities, and he will continue with those responsibilities. I and, indeed, my ministerial colleagues and the deputy leader of the DUP will be involved in moving other things forward. This is not Peter acting on his own: this is very much Peter acting from the front with his colleagues behind him, and we will work together as a team on those issues. We intend to do that this week. I want to be very clear about that. Peter has put me into this position temporarily, but he is still the First Minister of Northern Ireland. I am only acting up for him in this role.

Photo of Dawn Purvis Dawn Purvis PUP

I also wish the Minister well as she exercises her new responsibilities as Acting First Minister. Will she clarify whether the actions taken by her party today are, in fact, in the best interests of her office, the Assembly and the governing institutions of Northern Ireland, which belong to the people of Northern Ireland and are not the possession of any party inside or outside this Chamber, and that these actions by her party are not focused on simply preserving whatever is left of its electoral fortunes?

Photo of Arlene Foster Arlene Foster DUP

We can all dream. I believe that Peter has acted with complete integrity. His decision to temporarily step aside from carrying out his duties as First Minister was, in part, driven by his wish to clear his name from allegations of impropriety once and for all. In doing so, he will submit himself to the full scrutiny of any investigation that the Assembly may instigate, although he has already instigated one himself in respect of the Assembly. He has also stated that he will review his position if any inquiry or investigation finds that the allegation has some substance to the integrity of the Assembly, so that we can move forward and the Assembly is protected very clearly. I do not know how much more open the House expects Peter Robinson to be. He has done everything that has been asked of him, and he will submit himself to all the inquiries that come forward. Do you know why? It is because he has nothing to answer for. I believe that firmly in my heart, and I know that the party believes that as well.

Photo of William Hay William Hay Speaker

Order. We shall move on to the next item of business on the Order Paper

Photo of Edwin Poots Edwin Poots DUP

On a point of order, Mr Speaker; will you clarify to the House how, under the Members’ code of conduct, a complaint can be brought forward against a Member who has withheld information from the police that may lead to the prosecution of paedophiles?

Photo of William Hay William Hay Speaker

That is not a point of order, but if the Member wants to have a debate on the Floor of the House on any issue, there is a clear procedure that he can follow, and he will get all the advice that he needs from the Business Office.

Photo of David McNarry David McNarry UUP

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. You kindly provided an opportunity to have this question session today. The media, in pursuit of events, may well provide regular reports on potential new disclosures as they develop, such as in tonight’s ‘Panorama’. Therefore, are we to expect a running commentary, under your direction, Mr Speaker, to the House from the First Minister designate on denials or rejections by the First Minister?

Photo of William Hay William Hay Speaker

Order. Once again, that is not a point of order. The Member will know — and know quite well — that I do not come to the House with information supplied by any outlet of the press, irrespective of from whom it or where it comes. I said this morning that these are complex matters, and Members should speak to the Clerk or to the Business Office. There are other ways of dealing with business in this House.