North/South Ministerial Council — Language Body Sectoral Format

Ministerial Statement – in the Northern Ireland Assembly at 10:30 am on 20 November 2007.

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Photo of William Hay William Hay Speaker 10:30, 20 November 2007

I have received notice from the Minister of Culture, Arts and Leisure that he wishes to make a statement on the North/South Ministerial Council language body sectoral format.

Photo of Edwin Poots Edwin Poots DUP

In compliance with section 52 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, I wish to make the following statement on the first North/South Ministerial Council (NSMC) meeting in the language body sectoral format that has taken place since the restoration of the Northern Ireland Assembly and Executive. This report has been endorsed by Caitríona Ruane MLA.

The meeting was held in Altnaveigh House in Newry on Friday 26 October 2007. I represented the Northern Ireland Executive as Minister of Culture, Arts and Leisure, and Caitríona Ruane MLA, the Minister of Education, also attended. The Irish Government were represented by Éamon Ó Cuív TD, the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs.

I chaired the meeting, and matters that related to the language body and its two constituent agencies, Tha Boord o Ulster-Scotch — the Ulster-Scots Agency — and Foras na Gaeilge — the Irish-language agency — were discussed.

The meeting opened with the chief executive of Tha Boord o Ulster-Scotch, Mr George Patton, and his colleague the chief executive of Foras na Gaeilge, Ferdie Mac an Fhailigh, reporting how their agencies have developed since the Council’s previous language sectoral format meeting on 26 June 2002. We noted the progress that both agencies have made since that meeting, and I will now summarise the main points of that progress.

The two agencies have worked jointly on several projects, including jointly funding the post of arts development officer for language arts — in tandem with the Arts Council of Northern Ireland — and the post of cultural officer of Altnaveigh House Cultural Society in Newry. In addition, they piloted a joint lecture series on our shared heritage, and that was made available to several bodies.

The Ulster-Scots Agency successfully introduced the first-ever Ulster-Scots summer schools in 2006. That led to 33 summer schools being held in 2007, and in the past year, 120 primary schools have received a school drama production. The agency also piloted Ulster-Scots after-school clubs in several locations.

As regards Ulster-Scots culture, there has been major growth in interest in dance and musical tuition. Following the appointment of a youth-development officer in 2006, which is a post that is funded by the Irish Youth Foundation UK, the Ulster-Scots Agency is working with young people in inner cities.

We noted the chief executive officer’s report on the work of Foras na Gaeilge, especially the significant advances made in the e-government area by the agency, with the development of an online database of terminology — www.focal.ie — and the launch, with Microsoft, of an Irish-language version of Windows XP and the development of an accreditation scheme for Irish-language translators. A successful three-year local community support scheme, which provided funding to 20 groups in both jurisdictions has been extended to 2010. The success of the scheme has led Foras na Gaeilge to widen the scheme to post-primary level this year. The issue concerning the board minutes being made available on the Foras na Gaeilge website was also discussed.

The Council discussed Tha Boord o Ulster-Scotch community programme and the significant progress that has been made in music, dance and drama and in work with young people. We also noted that the body will establish a new development grant scheme beginning in February 2008. The Council recognised the positive reception given to Ulster-Scots language, heritage and culture at the Smithsonian Folklife Festival in Washington earlier this year. It noted the planned activities associated with the four-hundredth anniversary of the plantation of Ulster and has invited the agency to bring forward a proposal for a programme to develop links and culture exchanges with the Ulster-Scots community in Scotland and North America. Ministers also asked officials to clarify the position regarding the remit of the Ulster-Scots Agency and to report at the next NSMC meeting.

The Council noted the progress made in relation to the NSMC decision of March 2006 that 30 Foras na Gaeilge staff posts should be located in Gweedore. We agreed that a working group will be established, with representatives from Foras na Gaeilge and the two sponsor Departments, to reach agreement on a staffing submission from Foras na Gaeilge, in particular to quantify the financial implications in 2008 and subsequent financial years. That staffing submission concerns the filling of posts in the organisation, including those posts earmarked for Gweedore. We also agreed that the working group should seek to progress agreement on a number of key posts identified in the submission that can be met from existing financial allocations in the shortest possible time frame.

The Council approved the proposal to transfer the functions of Bord na Leabhar Gaeilge — the Irish language books board — to Foras na Gaeilge. That non-statutory state body was established in 1952 to assist writers and publishers in supplying Irish-language material for the general public. The Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs will continue to have sole responsibility for funding that organisation.

The Council discussed administrative and governance issues arising in relation to Colmcille. That organisation is funded equally by the Administrations in the Irish Republic, Northern Ireland and Scotland to develop stronger links between Gaelic speakers. We noted that work has been undertaken in relation to possible new arrangements to take that work forward under the aegis of Foras na Gaeilge in Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic and the Bòrd na Gàidhlig in Scotland. The Council asked officials to continue their work in examination of the issues arising and future options and agreed to consider the matter further at its next meeting on the basis of a report prepared by officials.

We were given progress reports in relation to the publication of the annual reports and accounts of the language body. We noted that the agencies are up to date in the submission of individual accounts but that clearance of consolidated accounts is awaited, and we requested that the chief executives, with the support of the sponsor Departments, seek progress with the Comptroller and Auditor Generals, North and South, as a matter of urgency. We have asked for a progress report at the next NSMC meeting in the language sectoral format.

We discussed the draft future plans for both agencies and have requested that they, along with the sponsor Departments, work together to finalise the 2008 business plans and the 2008-10 corporate plans urgently for approval at the next NSMC meeting in the language sectoral format.

In closing, Minister Ó Cuiv stated his intention to host the next NSMC meeting in the language sectoral format in a location that would have significance for the work of the language body. The Council agreed to meet again in the language sectoral format in January/February 2008.

Photo of Barry McElduff Barry McElduff Sinn Féin 10:45, 20 November 2007

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Cuirim fáilte roimh an ráiteas agus roimh an chruinniú fosta. Is maith an rud gur tháinig na hAirí le chéile seo ar an ábhar seo. I welcome the statement and, more importantly, the fact that the meeting took place. It was the first meeting of its kind since the restoration of the Executive and the Assembly, as the Minister said. I am also glad that it took place in Newry. Newry could fit Éamon Ó Cuív’s description of:

“a location that would have significance for the work of the language body”

There is a very strong Irish-language community in that area, and nowhere could be more suitable.

I note that the meeting took the form of reports from Foras na Gaeilge and Tha Boord o Ulster-Scotch. I would be interested to hear more about the three-year community support scheme, which has been extended until 2010. What groups have received funding and support from that scheme?

To return to my point about the meeting’s taking the form of reports from the two bodies, my question to the Minister is whether, following on from the St Andrews Agreement and the obligation on both Governments and on this Administration to take forward a proactive strategy aimed at enhancing and promoting the Irish language, he sees a role for himself in the matter — or for the Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure (DCAL) as a parent Department — or whether he is merely leaving it to the bodies.

Photo of Edwin Poots Edwin Poots DUP

I thank the Member for his question and note his comments about Newry’s being a suitable location because of the Irish-language culture in that area. It should be noted that the event actually took place at Altnaveigh House, which is an Ulster-Scots society. I am glad to note that Ulster-Scots culture is also alive and kicking in the Newry area, even though the Committee Chairman did not recognise that.

Do I see a role for us in the development of an Irish-language strategy? That question is not relevant to this morning’s statement, which dealt with the work of the North/South language bodies. The development of an Irish-language strategy is a matter for this House, the Executive and the Minister — me — who is answerable to the Committee and to the House.

Photo of William Hay William Hay Speaker

I remind all sides of the House that questions must relate to the statement.

Photo of Nelson McCausland Nelson McCausland DUP

I welcome the statement and want to ask two questions, one in relation to Ulster Scots and one in relation to Irish.

There was mention in the Minister’s statement of after-school clubs and the extensive work that is being undertaken with schools. I note that the Minister was accompanied by Caitríona Ruane, the Minister of Education. Did she make any commitment to put some resources into that work? She funds a very extensive — and, some might say, expensive — Irish-medium sector, but there does not seem to be much money put into Ulster Scots. In fact, in one year, the Department put in absolutely nothing at all, and in another year it was about £69.

My second question is in relation to Foras na Gaeilge. There was reference to its website and the minutes of its meetings. Can the Minister explain what is being done to achieve transparency by having the minutes, both in Irish and in English, on the website?

Photo of Edwin Poots Edwin Poots DUP

In relation to the first question, Ms Ruane did not give any commitment at the meeting. I suggest that the matter of what support the Department of Education may give to Ulster-Scots summer schools and other activities would be best taken up directly with Minister Ruane as Minister of Education.

I raised the issue of the minutes of Foras na Gaeilge, and discovered that not only are the minutes not made public in English, neither are they made public in Gaelic. I asked for that issue to be addressed, and I received support from Minister Ó Cuív. I understand that the board is coming to the end of its lifespan — it has two more meetings — and the issue will probably be dealt with by a new board.

However, when a public body has more than £13 million to spend, it is important that it makes its minutes publicly available. To determine how those funds are being spent, Foras na Gaeilge must demonstrate an openness and willingness to submit itself to public scrutiny.

Photo of David McNarry David McNarry UUP

I, too, welcome the Minister’s statement and appreciate his bringing it to the House. After the first meeting of the North/South Ministerial Council in the language sectoral format, is the Minister confident that his Republic of Ireland counterpart is committed to promoting Ulster-Scots heritage, culture and language in that jurisdiction?

Photo of Edwin Poots Edwin Poots DUP

Mr Ó Cuív is very committed to the Irish language, in which he is fluent. When I have discussed anything to do with Ulster Scots with him, I have found him to be nothing other than co-operative. That is the current nature of our relationship. I trust that that will continue and that we shall make further progress in the development of Ulster Scots, not only in Northern Ireland, but in the entire nine counties of Ulster and further afield.

Photo of Dominic Bradley Dominic Bradley Social Democratic and Labour Party

Go raibh míle maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Seo í mo cheist ar an Aire. Ba mhaith liom fiafraí den Aire cén dul chun cinn atá déanta maidir le cúrsaí foirne i bhForas na Gaeilge ó bhí an cruinniú ann ar 26 Deireadh Fómhair na bliana seo; go háirithe i dtaca leis na heochairphoist a aithníodh in aighneacht Fhoras na Gaeilge. Ba mhaith liom fáil amach cén uair a dhéanfar cinneadh ina thaobh. Since the meeting on 26 October, what progress has been made on Foras na Gaeilge’s submission on staffing? I particularly refer to the key posts that the body identified. When can we expect a decision on those posts to be taken, given that the Minister has just said that progress would be made:

“in the shortest possible time frame”?

Go raibh míle maith agat.

Photo of Edwin Poots Edwin Poots DUP

The staffing complement was actually agreed in 2001, but, thus far, only about half the posts have been filled.

The decision to locate Foras na Gaeilge’s new premises in Gweedore in the Gaeltacht formed part of a wider decision to move Civil Service jobs away from the east and towards the west of Ireland. However, that decision has caused some problems. Foras na Gaeilge has found it difficult to fill the positions in Gweedore, because of its location. I understand that there are also insufficient individuals with the relevant Irish-language skills and qualifications to do the jobs. Therefore, the staffing issue has proved challenging, all the more so since use of the Irish language became more widespread. For example, it is now used in the European Parliament, and Foras na Gaeilge has found it more difficult to find translators with the requisite skills. Foras na Gaeilge has given a commitment that it will fill the posts. Moreover, it has the available funds — no additional funding is required. However, it needs to find personnel who have the key skills to do the jobs. That is where the problem lies.

Photo of Kieran McCarthy Kieran McCarthy Alliance

I also welcome the Minister’s statement. I also welcome the good working relationship that exists between Foras na Gaeilge and Tha Boord O Ulster-Scotch. In his statement, when outlining joint ventures, the Minister mentioned the joint lecture series “Our shared heritage”, which was made available to a variety of bodies.

In view of some unionist representatives’ continuing negative attitude to the Irish language, would the Minister consider making available to a wider public — for example, councils, public representatives and schools — the contents of that lecture series? Were he to do so, everyone could acknowledge where we have come from and where we all wish to go together.

Photo of Edwin Poots Edwin Poots DUP

Schools are a matter for the Department of Education and not for the Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure. However, should the Department of Education need the assistance of the Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure in delivering some of its key projects, that is a matter for discussion among officials, who will then bring it to the two Ministers.

Photo of Jim Shannon Jim Shannon DUP

I thank the Minister for a clear and positive statement concerning the Ulster-Scots language. He mentioned the Ulster-Scots community programmes, referring specifically to the Smithsonian Folklife Festival in Washington, and to the four-hundredth anniversary of the plantation.

What plans does the Minister have to develop the capacity of the Ulster-Scots Agency as an organisation, and to develop its links with Scotland and America?

Photo of Edwin Poots Edwin Poots DUP

It is recognised that, for a considerable time, the capacity of the Ulster-Scots Agency has been increasing significantly. That has enabled me to release additional funding; for example, £750,000 for the incoming year. That will help to put on the ground projects such as the successful summer schools, which I mentioned earlier.

The capacity is being developed, and, hand-in-hand with that, the finances are being raised to meet it. As further capacity is developed, further projects can be delivered, and it is up to us to seek and identify the funding mechanisms to ensure that that situation continues.

Photo of Paul Maskey Paul Maskey Sinn Féin

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I welcome the Minister’s statement. Could he elaborate a little on the successful local community support scheme? I appreciate that that has been extended until 2010. Who were the 20 groups that were funded by the scheme? Where were they based, and what were their activities? If the Minister does not have that information to hand, I would appreciate a written response. Go raibh maith agat.

Photo of Edwin Poots Edwin Poots DUP

Locations were in both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. I shall be happy provide the information in writing.

Photo of Michelle McIlveen Michelle McIlveen DUP

I, too, welcome the Minister’s statement. What increases in resources will be allocated to the Ulster-Scots Agency and to the Irish language agency? Furthermore, will the Minister agree to engage with the Ulster-Scots Heritage Council, as the representative community body of the Ulster-Scots Agency, to consider the creation of a parallel initiative to the Colmcille initiative?

Photo of Edwin Poots Edwin Poots DUP

I thank the Member for her question. There will be an increase of £750,000 over the baseline in funding to the Ulster-Scots Agency for 2008-09. There will be a further increase of £1 million in 2009-10, and an over-the-baseline increase of £1,250,000 in 2010-11. Those will considerably narrow the funding gap between the Ulster-Scots Agency and Foras na Gaeilge. There have been no further commitments to Foras na Gaeilge for additional spending.

With regard to Colmcille, there has been a proposal, which has not yet been agreed to, to bring Colmcille under Foras na Gaeilge. Moreover, there is a suggestion that there may be an opportunity for the Ninian initative, which was referred to in 2001, to be established in the Ulster-Scots Agency. Matters are still at discussion stage, and no decision has yet been taken on either of those two proposals; however, they have been given consideration.

Photo of Ken Robinson Ken Robinson UUP

I thank the Minister for his report. Some Members referred to the location of the meeting. Altnaveigh has a particular relevance to my community.

Does the Minister agree that the excellent work of the Ulster-Scots Agency — particularly in the expansion of its summer-scheme programme, the involvement of 120 primary schools in an agency-commissioned school drama, and the innovative and expanding number of Ulster-Scots after-school clubs, and in light of the impact in the US of the Smithsonian event — must be matched by equivalent levels of enthusiasm, ingenuity, energy and funding on the part of his officials to redress the poor-relation status of Ulster Scots compared to the rapid progress and generous funding enjoyed by the Irish-culture community? Will he undertake to encourage the extension of those Ulster-Scots schemes into large housing estates, as well as the inner-city areas that he referred to in his statement?

Photo of Edwin Poots Edwin Poots DUP 11:00, 20 November 2007

The outworking of those schemes is a matter for the Ulster-Scots Agency, which will report on its successes or otherwise, and, in its capacity as a competent body, the delivery of such projects should be left to the agency. If Members wish to have such schemes developed in their areas, it is for them to encourage the agency.

We are addressing, and will continue to address, the poor-relation status of the Ulster-Scots Agency, although that will not be dealt with in one year. However, we are working towards providing equal funding for both bodies.

Photo of Pat Ramsey Pat Ramsey Social Democratic and Labour Party

I welcome the Minister’s statement and the continuing co-operation between the two Govern­ments. I wish to refer to the Ulster-Scots Agency’s programmes, particularly those commemorating the four- hundredth anniversary of the plantation. As Derry was one of the first towns to be planted, Derry City Council clearly has a role to play. My question to the Minister is also directed to the Speaker, who is aware of the city’s bid for world heritage site status. How can the Assembly support Derry in its bid to be added to the UNESCO list?

It is appropriate that the Minister of the Environment — who has had discussions with members of Derry City Council — is here, and the Speaker will also be aware of Derry City Council’s work to retrieve The Honourable The Irish Society’s plantation artefacts, which are in storage in England. What are the planned commemoration activities, and what are the funding arrangements for them?

Photo of Edwin Poots Edwin Poots DUP

I am happy to speak to people about such matters. In fact, I recently spoke to people from the University of Ulster who are studying the period in our history that encompasses the flight of the earls, the Ulster plantation, and the roles played by The Honourable The Irish Society and the city of London in the establishment of the city of Londonderry, and I am happy to work with city-council representatives. That history offers huge potential for tourism. Looking at London 2012 and the links to Londonderry, there is a huge opportunity for people in that city to gain some significant benefits from the 400-year link that has been established there.

Photo of William Hay William Hay Speaker

As we conduct today’s business, a number of Members will want to speak in their capacity as Chairperson of a Committee. I warn those Committee Chairpersons that when they get up to speak, they are speaking on behalf of their Committees. If they wish to make personal statements, they must alert the House of that intention.