North/South Ministerial Council — Institutional Format

Ministerial Statement – in the Northern Ireland Assembly at 2:00 am on 13 November 2007.

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Photo of Martin McGuinness Martin McGuinness Sinn Féin 2:00, 13 November 2007

With your permission, go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle, I wish to say how saddened I am by this morning’s devastating news of the tragic death of a family in Omagh. My sympathy goes out to their friends, relatives and neighbours who are, no doubt, heartbroken by their terrible loss.

I wish to express my deepest appreciation to everyone in our emergency services who had to deal with that awful situation. The work in which the emergency services are currently engaged in Omagh contrasts markedly with the actions of those who, in recent days, shot two policemen. That micro-group is totally detached from reality, and has no popular support in the community. I condemn, in the strongest possible terms, the actions of its members and I call on them to stop such actions immediately.

In compliance with Section 52(6)(b) of the NI Act 1998, we wish to make a statement on the second meeting, in institutional format, of the North/South Ministerial Council (NSMC), which was held at the Ballymascanlon Hotel, Dundalk, on Tuesday 30 October 2007. All of the Ministers who attended the meeting have approved the following report, and we make it on their behalf.

The Executive were represented by the First Minister, junior Minister Paisley, the Minister of Education and myself. The Irish Government were represented by Dermot Ahern TD, Minister for Foreign Affairs, who chaired the meeting.

Ministers expressed regret at the decision of Seagate Technology to close its plant at Limavady. We recognised that, because Seagate’s workforce comes from a wide, cross-border area, that decision will have serious implications for both the Executive and the Irish Government. We agreed to co-operate closely in the coming weeks in our efforts to address that situation, and we welcomed the announcement of 300 new jobs at Norbrook Laboratories Ltd in Newry.

The Council noted that the terms of office of the boards of the North/South implementation bodies and of Tourism Ireland Ltd will expire in December 2007, and asked that work be taken forward to ensure that the NSMC can put new boards in place by November 2007. The Council expressed its appreciation of the work and the commitment of the outgoing chairpersons, vice-chairpersons and board members of the North/South implementation bodies and Tourism Ireland Ltd.

The Council welcomed the opportunity to consider the EU dimension of its work, and agreed to consider that matter further at its next plenary meeting.

The Council noted progress on the implementation of the recommendations contained in ‘Study of Obstacles to Mobility’, which was commissioned by the NSMC, including progress on a mutual recognition of qualific­ations in the areas of education and health, the introduction of single tariffs by some mobile phone operators, and the greater availability of public-service information for people who wish to cross the border to live, work and study. The Council launched a cross-border mobility website, which provides a central access point for information on a range of issues for such people. The Council requested that its secretariat keep the website’s operation, development, marketing and management under review, examine options for its future funding — including possible EU funding — and report back to a future NSMC meeting.

The Council agreed that the NSMC secretariat should convene two working groups: one to explore options for going forward on the transfer of pension rights on a cross-border basis; and the second to examine cross-border banking issues, including that of transaction charges. Both groups will report back to a future NSMC meeting.

The Council noted the progress to date in acquiring permanent accommodation for the NSMC joint secretariat in Armagh. The Council agreed that, once evaluation of the shortlisted bidders is completed, subject to the appropriate internal processes in each Adminis­tration, officials should enter into contractual negotiations with the preferred bidder to provide lease accommodation and report progress to a future NSMC meeting.

The Council discussed a number of issues of human resources in respect of the North/South implementation bodies and Tourism Ireland Ltd, including pay issues and the regrading of posts, which were raised in a paper that was prepared by the chief executive officers of those bodies.

The Council agreed that officials from the Department of Finance and Personnel and from the Department of Finance would advise their Ministers on the issues and consider the chief executive officers’ pay paper together with additional information provided by the bodies in the context of relevant national pay policies. Conclusions will be reported to a future NSMC meeting.

The Council agreed a framework for approving the regrading of certain posts in the North/South implement­ation bodies and Tourism Ireland Ltd. It agreed that, provided the principles set out in the framework are adhered to, NSMC approval of such regradings can be deemed to have been given.

The Council noted that progress on all the matters discussed at the institutional meeting will be reported to the next NSMC plenary meeting and agreed that the Council will meet again in institutional format, as appropriate, in 2008.

Photo of Ian Paisley Ian Paisley First Minister of Northern Ireland, Leader of the Democratic Unionist Party

I wish to associate myself with everything that the deputy First Minister has said, especially about the terrible tragedy in Omagh. I am sure that our hearts are sore as we think of the sadness over that family and over the town at this time. They can be assured that all right-thinking people feel as we do about the matter.

Photo of Tom Elliott Tom Elliott UUP

I thank the deputy First Minister for his statement. I want to question him on a specific point. Will he outline to the House the process by which appointments to the North/South implementation bodies and Tourism Ireland Ltd will take place? I assume that that will happen over the forthcoming weeks or months. In addition, are there any plans to establish a board for Waterways Ireland?

Photo of Martin McGuinness Martin McGuinness Sinn Féin

Under the agreement that set up the implementation bodies in March 1998, the North/South Ministerial Council appoints the management boards to the trade and business development body — InterTradeIreland; to the North/South language body, which includes Foras na Gaeilge and Tha Boord o Ulster-Scotch; to the Foyle, Carlingford and Irish Lights Commission; and an advisory board to the Food Safety Promotion Board. Overall, there are 60 members on the boards of those bodies. The Special EU Programmes Body and Waterways Ireland do not have boards.

The terms of office of the current board members, including the chairs and vice-chairs, end in December 2007, and since most of those people have served two terms, they cannot be reappointed. Many of the chairs, vice-chairs and members have served on the boards for almost seven years. The current boards have made a sustained commitment to the work of the bodies, and the Executive and the Irish Government are currently considering appointments to the new boards to be made on a 50:50 basis. The process of securing nominations is under way. Appointments to the boards will require approval at an appropriate NSMC meeting in November to ensure that the new boards are in place by mid-December.

If a Waterways Ireland board were to be established, that would require legislation. As Members will know, the St Andrews review is an opportunity to consider that.

Photo of Martina Anderson Martina Anderson Sinn Féin

Go raibh maith agat. I was going to ask when the appointments would be made, but the deputy First Minister has already answered that question.

Photo of Declan O'Loan Declan O'Loan Social Democratic and Labour Party

I wish to be associated with the deputy First Minister’s expression of sympathy in relation to the Omagh tragedy. I also welcome his remarks about, and echo his strong condemnation of, the attempted murders of two police officers.

I appreciate the appropriate reference to the job losses at Seagate Technology in Limavady. It was good that the meeting was able to welcome 300 new jobs at Norbrook Laboratories Ltd in Newry. What contribution can the North/South Ministerial Council make to economic development, North and South, including co-operation between INI and IDA Ireland?

Photo of Martin McGuinness Martin McGuinness Sinn Féin

We are all conscious that we are still in the early stages of this Administration; the institutions have been up and running for six months, effectively. Considerable work is taking place in the different institutional formats. In the course of the past week, the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment and Michelle Gildernew were involved in one of the sectoral meetings.

All issues that are connected to the economy are obviously of huge importance to this Administration and to the Assembly, as it moves forward.

We work with people in the Irish Government who recognise the importance of liaising on matters in which it is clear that benefit can be achieved for Dublin and for ourselves. In the context of the work that is taking place on what I consider to be the most important economic investment conference ever to take place on the North, as time moves on, we look forward to working, through the NSMC, with the Irish Government and others to ensure that we take best advantage of the opportunities that are available for our workforce and community.

Photo of David Ford David Ford Alliance

I too thank the Minister for his statement, and I associate my group both with his expressions of sympathy to the family that has been devastated by the Omagh tragedy and with his condemnation of the attacks on the two police officers.

When the Minister mentioned the cross-border mobility website, I was surprised to learn that the ambition behind it appears to be merely to provide information. Does the Minister not agree that strong benefits would be brought to this society, North and South, if the cross-border movement of young people into further and higher education were encouraged? Given that he is examining websites, perhaps he might also consider whether he could spare time to publish on the OFMDFM website the report on research into the financial cost of the Northern Ireland divide. Bearing in mind the issues that apply to society here, both North and South, perhaps he could discuss a shared future at the next NSMC meeting.

Photo of Martin McGuinness Martin McGuinness Sinn Féin

I shall give a brief history of the report to which the Member has referred. In September 2000, the North/South Ministerial Council commissioned a study on obstacles to mobility in order to identify the impediments that make it difficult for people who wish to move across the border — in either direction — to work, study or live. That study was published in February 2002 and contained 50 recommendations that covered several key areas. Twelve recommendations, relating to the transfer of pensions, bank charges and the provision of information, remain to be implemented. Some progress has been made to implement those remaining recommendations, including: work on the mutual recognition of qualifications, resulting in the freer cross-border movement of workers in areas such as the education and health sectors; the introduction of single tariffs by some mobile-phone operators; and greater availability of public-service information for people who wish to cross the border to live, work and study. The new cross-border mobility information website has been launched, and the NSMC joint secretariat will keep the operation, marketing and management of that website under review. The secretariat will examine options for the website’s future funding, including possible EU funding, and it will report on that to future NSMC meetings. The Council agreed that the secretariat should convene two working groups. The first group will explore options for implementing a mechanism to transfer pension rights on a cross-border basis, and the other will examine cross-border banking issues, such as transaction charges. Those groups will also report back to a future NSMC meeting.

The Member also mentioned a shared future, about which there is a great deal of debate. The work that the First Minister and I — and, indeed, all the parties in the Assembly — are doing to lead by example is the best illustration of the progress that we are making. We are showing that a huge job of work needs to be done in order to bring about a situation that will obviously create massive savings for us in our budgetary considerations, especially if we have a very sound basis on which to integrate our community more sensibly.

A live and current debate on a shared future is ongoing, but I am not sure that it is an issue for the NSMC. In the final analysis, the matter will have to be settled to the satisfaction of everyone. Everyone in the Assembly has contributed to the work that has been done on it thus far; more people than just the First Minister and I have been involved. The existence of the Assembly, the fact that the institutions are up and working, and the fact that we are making important agreements on budgetary issues, investment strategies, and programmes for Government, are clear indicators to the public about how we intend to move forward. As the First Minister —correctly — said after the NSMC meeting in Armagh, the important point is to end all the old hatreds and divisions.

Photo of Stephen Moutray Stephen Moutray DUP 2:15, 13 November 2007

Will the deputy First Minister assure Members that the review body will critically examine the management of the North/South implementation bodies and ensure that they do not remain the shambles that many of them currently are?

Photo of Martin McGuinness Martin McGuinness Sinn Féin

The review will examine objectively the efficiency and value for money of existing implementation bodies and consider the case for additional bodies and areas of co-operation in the NSMC that might deliver mutual benefits.

The review group’s first meeting took place on 31 October 2007. In addition to senior officials from the Executive and the Irish Government, the review group also includes an advisory panel comprised of four experts — two nominated by the Executive and two by the Irish Government. The two Executive-nominated experts are Peter King and Sean Oliver. Eoin O’Shea and John Hynes were nominated by the Irish Government. Eoin O’Shea is the chief executive of the Institute of Directors in Ireland, and John Hynes is the former secretary general of the Department of Social and Family Affairs.

It is anticipated that intensive work will be undertaken by the review group during November and December and that a final report will be made available to the first NSMC plenary meeting in 2008. To ensure that review costs are kept to a minimum, the NSMC decided that the review group would draw on the existing resources and expertise of Departments in the North and in Dublin in order to implement its terms of reference. The NSMC secretariat will provide full administrative and secretarial support to the review group, and the work of the existing North/South bodies will be unaffected during the review.

Therefore, I have no doubt that in the course of that work, which is under way, we will see people facing up to the past criticisms of those bodies in order to improve them in the future.

Photo of Mitchel McLaughlin Mitchel McLaughlin Sinn Féin

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I want to associate my party with the First Minister’s and the deputy First Minister’s comments about the tragedy in Omagh and the despicable attacks in Derry and Dungannon.

In his statement, the deputy First Minister referred to the North/South Ministerial Council’s study on cross-border mobility, which Sinn Féin welcomes. The report, published in February 2002, contains 50 recommend­ations. Will the deputy First Minister indicate what progress has been made to implement any outstanding recommendations, particularly those relating to workers’ pension rights? Will he also indicate whether the study group’s report will be presented to the next council meeting and when that might be?

Photo of Martin McGuinness Martin McGuinness Sinn Féin

The outcome of that will be reported to the next NSMC meeting. At this stage, it is difficult to say what progress has been made because we have only just ratified the review. Like everyone else, I await the outcome with considerable interest, particularly in relation to pension transfers and bank charges. Both of those matters are being determinedly focused on by the group.

Photo of Jim Shannon Jim Shannon DUP

In the report, the deputy First Minister mentioned Tourism Ireland Ltd. Has a strategy been agreed that will benefit the whole Province? I ask in the light of the loss of 100 jobs in my area last week, and I am conscious that tourism is a growth area and has the potential to turn things around. In addition, is there any indication when single tariffs for mobile phones will be introduced?

Photo of Martin McGuinness Martin McGuinness Sinn Féin

As I indicated earlier, there was a sectoral meeting last week, on which Nigel Dodds, the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment, will report.

On phone charges, things seem to be moving at a far quicker speed than we have previously seen. We are hopeful that there will be action in the shorter term.

Tourism is vital to our economy, and I was heartened by the recent news that, last year, there was a 75% increase in the number of North American tourists visiting the North.

Those are spectacular figures by our standards, and they show clearly that an open market exists for us in the United States in particular. We are conscious that, because of the state of world affairs, instability and the unpopularity of American foreign policy in other countries, many Americans are reluctant to travel widely. The fact that large numbers of them are coming to Ireland is something that we should take advantage of. The 75% increase in the number of American tourists travelling to the North will boost our tourism industry in the future.

Mr Shannon comes from a particularly beautiful part of our country, and I have no doubt whatsoever that the entrepreneurs in his area will be able to capitalise on the numbers of tourists to the benefit of the local community.

Photo of David McClarty David McClarty UUP

My party and I would like to be associated with the expressions of sympathy for those who so tragically lost their lives in Omagh this morning. We also wish the two wounded police officers very speedy recoveries.

I was extremely interested to read that the horrendous economic news that emanated from my constituency regarding the impending loss of 930 jobs at Seagate was discussed at the NSMC meeting. Can the deputy First Minister tell the House what progress, if any, has been made in drawing up an action plan to address that situation?

Photo of Martin McGuinness Martin McGuinness Sinn Féin

Essentially, the Seagate facility at Limavady produces substrates — component parts for data-storage systems in computers — which are common across all computer hard-drive systems and which are now manufactured predominantly in Asia. As a consequence of that, and of recent expansion in global capacity, the Limavady facility is, according to Seagate, no longer cost-competitive, particularly as regards labour costs.

How can we provide assistance to keep the plant here, or address what is a serious situation involving the loss of so many jobs? Invest NI has been working closely with the company over the last 18 months in an effort to improve efficiencies and flexibility at the plant. Despite the significant success achieved by the workers at Limavady, the movement in global capacity and prices means that the cost differential, which is approximately £15 million per annum, is too great to be bridged.

It was clear in the course of the meeting that we had with Dermot Ahern that he was keen to see the Admin­istrations of the North and South working together to address the issue. In the coming period, we will try to see how we can take advantage of the combined wisdom of those agencies that are under our combined stewardship to see whether we can deal with the horrific difficulties in Limavady.

The north-west gateway initiative, which was set up during the period of suspension, depended on Departments working with local councils. All of that requires a joined-up approach and an integrated strategy. I look forward to seeing the outcome of the combined wisdom of people who have been through such experiences, particularly in the South.

Dermot Ahern talked about the situation in Clonmel, which suffered equally horrendous job losses. However, the people there did not lie down under it; they got up off their backsides, shook themselves down and recovered — Clonmel is now booming. We hope to do that with Limavady in the coming period. It will not be easy; it will be difficult. However, given the scale of the job losses, there is no doubt whatsoever that we must prioritise Limavady as an area in need of assistance.

Photo of Pat Ramsey Pat Ramsey Social Democratic and Labour Party

I too would like to be associated with the deputy First Minister’s condemnation of the attempted murders of the two policemen and the awful loss of the family in Omagh last night.

In his recent speech to a Chamber of Commerce meeting, the Taoiseach referred to the north-west gateway initiative. He discussed how that initiative is a joint approach to building greater capacity and a better quality of life for all in the north-west region, which, as we know, includes Donegal, Limavady, Strabane and Derry.

The Taoiseach identified challenges that the initiative addresses, including workforce development, higher education, innovation and science. Will those areas be prioritised, especially in light of David McClarty’s point about the economic setbacks that recent job losses have created?

Sir Reg Empey has often talked about investment coming from America. However, those investors are no longer interested in capital investment; they are more interested in a trained and skilled workforce. What efforts are the Executive making to ensure that we are creating a better workforce that has the capacity to attract investment?

Photo of Martin McGuinness Martin McGuinness Sinn Féin

The Member and I, among others, were present when the Taoiseach visited the north-west a number of weeks ago. The Taoiseach spoke about the importance of the north-west gateway initiative, which is hugely important to everyone who lives in that area.

Since taking up the post of Minister for Employment and Learning, Sir Reg Empey has consistently reiterated the importance of skilling our workforce so that it meets the needs of a changing world. That is a huge priority for him. We have been to the United States on several occasions, and he and I were on a delegation together during the Smithsonian Festival. In all the engagements that we were involved in, it was clear that he considers developing skills a priority on which his Department needed to major.

It is still early days. However, the economic invest­ment conference will take place in May, and many business groups from the United States will probably come to the North before that. In our attempts to attract more inward investment, we hope to interest many of those groups in the situation in the north-west, especially as the recent devastating news in Limavady has created an issue that must be addressed.

Other good work has been done on roads in the north-west. Roads are key to infrastructure, and they encourage people to visit particular areas. The universities in that area have been working to attract more people to their institutions.

Sir Reg Empey was involved in a sectoral meeting of the North/South Ministerial Council in Dublin in recent weeks, and he majored on the issue of a skills strategy, which is rightly a priority.

Photo of Raymond McCartney Raymond McCartney Sinn Féin

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle, agus gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire fosta. The deputy First Minister’s statement referred to the next plenary meeting of the NSMC. Will the Minister please announce the date of that meeting?

Photo of Martin McGuinness Martin McGuinness Sinn Féin

The date of the next NSMC plenary meeting has not yet been finalised. However, it is anticipated that it will take place early in the new year. Given that it is the intention to host the North/South Ministerial Council meetings on an alternate basis, the next plenary meeting will be held in Dundalk in the South.

Photo of Cathal Boylan Cathal Boylan Sinn Féin

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Will the deputy First Minister state when he envisages that the new accommodation for the North/South Ministerial Council secretariat in Armagh city will be ready? Go raibh maith agat.

Photo of Martin McGuinness Martin McGuinness Sinn Féin

A business case and an economic appraisal that were completed in 2006 confirmed that the North/South Ministerial Council joint secretariat accommodation does not meet operational requirements. It was therefore recommended that suitable alternative accommodation in the Armagh area should be identified. I have been to the current accommodation several times, and I have seen the far-from-satisfactory conditions in which the civil servants are working.

It is recommended that the secretariat should lease suitable accommodation in the Armagh area from a third party, which will either provide an appropriate building, or design and build one to specification. Earlier this year, expressions of interest were sought from those willing to provide accommodation for the secretariat. A number of tenders were received and have been evaluated against agreed criteria to provide a shortlist of four bidders. Those four have been invited to respond to a second, more rigorous selection process using a more detailed specification. At its meeting on 30 October, the Council agreed that, once evaluation of the shortlisted bids is complete — subject to the appropriate internal processes in each Administration — officials should enter into contract negotiations with the preferred bidder to provide leased accommodation, and report progress to a future NSMC meeting. Following the award of a contract, construction and fit-out will take approximately two years, and the new accommodation could be available in late 2009.

Photo of Alan McFarland Alan McFarland UUP 2:30, 13 November 2007

I thank the Ministers for their statement. Has the deputy First Minister been driven to distraction by the complaints of the First Minister and junior Minister Paisley about what a waste of time and money the North/South Ministerial Council represents, or have they changed their views on this issue since the first Assembly?

In his discussions with Tourism Ireland on human resources, which I see is on the menu here, have the deputy First Minister and his colleagues worked out how the marked community imbalance in the staff of that body is to be rectified?

Photo of Martin McGuinness Martin McGuinness Sinn Féin

With respect to the Member’s second question, all those matters are consistently under review. Where there are difficulties, measures will be taken to correct them.

As to whether I am driven to distraction by the First Minister, I have been working with him for the last six months and he has not driven me to distraction yet.

Photo of Stephen Farry Stephen Farry Alliance

No doubt the House takes great comfort from the working relationship between the First Minister and the deputy First Minister. However, we would like to see more delivery and better results.

With reference to the deputy First Minister’s statement and his focus on economic development after Seagate, is there not a limit on how far co-operation between the two jurisdictions can go? They operate in different frameworks: the South works on the basis of a differential rate of corporation tax; in Northern Ireland, we have to operate on the basis of selective financial assistance through the award of grants.

Have the Executive sought the assistance of the Irish Government in making representations to the British Government on the Varney Review? How will the Southern Government encourage investors who are considering investment in the island of Ireland to invest in the North as opposed to the South, notwithstanding the more competitive framework in the South of Ireland?

Photo of Martin McGuinness Martin McGuinness Sinn Féin

The Member raises obvious practical difficulties: the fact that we are working with two separate jurisdictions and two completely different systems of government. The issue of corporation tax has exercised the Executive and the Assembly many times in the last six months.

During the course of his review, Varney went to Dublin and met different interest groups there. No doubt he learnt the views of both the Irish Government, who are supportive of everything that we have said in relation to that issue, and business interests in the South.

There is always a level of competition, as different regions of the country constantly angle for more jobs and more prosperity. For us, the question is whether — in the course of our deliberations with the Irish Government on a wide range of matters under the auspices of the North/South Ministerial Council — we are working with people willing to assist in economic investment and development in the North. It is clear to us that there is good heart for the North in Irish Govern­ment circles and that, in spite of all the practical difficulties, people are willing to be imaginative as to how we go forward and improve the economic prospects for people in the North, who have been so detrimentally affected by decades of conflict.

Our society is emerging from that conflict, and those with whom we work are prepared to assist as much as possible. For example, there is no doubt that our efforts to encourage investment from the United States receive support from the Irish Government. As it approaches, I am becoming excited about the economic investment conference’s prospects. The new US special envoy to the North, Paula Dobriansky, has been here on a number of occasions and has worked very hard to attract key American companies to the investment conference. She has not simply issued fine words or aspirational statements but has stressed the need for delivery, which is the kind of language that I like to hear when I talk to people about economic investment.

The Irish Government are therefore encouraging all of that to which I have referred. Practical difficulties remain, but it is a matter of being imaginative, of which we are capable.