To ask His Majesty’s Government whether they intend to ensure Gaelic broadcasting will be given the same certainty and sufficiency of funding as Welsh broadcasting under the next BBC Royal Charter.

I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper and I declare an interest as a member of the development board of Sabhal Mòr Ostaig, a Gaelic college on the island of Skye.

My Lords, the Government are clear about the vital role of Gaelic broadcasting: the BBC belongs to all of us and must reflect every community it serves. Charter review aims to put the BBC on a sustainable financial footing so that it can continue to deliver wide public value, including through the provision of Gaelic broadcasting. Alongside this, proposals detailed in the media green paper aim to ensure the long-term sustainability of public service media, including through minority-language broadcasting.

I am grateful for the Minister’s reply. It certainly is a step forward. Gaelic is one of the UK’s indigenous languages, and it is much older than English. It is fighting for its life, although the number of Gaelic speakers is increasing, and Gaelic broadcasting is pivotal in that role. Although MG Alba was created by legislation at Westminster, there has been no UK funding since the Lord Speaker left the other House. S4C in Wales is funded by the licence fee, with £22 million for programmes and £96 million in cash. BBC Alba gets no cash from the licence fee, only £10 million in kind from the BBC and another £15 million from the Scottish Government. All Gaelic broadcasting is asking for is parity of esteem. It is not a big ask for a priceless gain. I hope the Minister will carry on agreeing.

I agree with my noble friend on how important our UK languages are. Keeping them alive is part of not just our history but our culture for the future, and it should matter to all of us. The Government recognise the valuable contribution that providers of minority-language broadcasting have and their vital role in the preservation of our national heritage. The Government are considering the most appropriate arrangements for providing sustainable funding for minority-languages broadcasting as part of the charter review. MG Alba’s total budget stands at an estimated £420 per Gaelic Speaker, including both BBC and Scottish Government spend. This compares to an equivalent of £260 per Welsh speaker for S4C. That is not to minimise the importance of it but to show that there is investment in this space.

My Lords, in supporting the noble Baroness’s plea on behalf of the Gaelic language, and as a one-time board member of S4C, there was never a time when S4C had the certainty of adequate future funding. Is the Minister aware that S4C has called for more medium-term funding through a multi-year funding settlement that allows for inflation and for protection from outside cuts? Will the Minister give serious consideration to such an approach, and thereby provide fair funding for both Welsh and Gaelic broadcasting services?

As I made clear, we want the charter review to put broadcasting on a sustainable financial footing. I will speak to my colleague Ian Murray about the points the noble Lord raises. We are clear that minority languages are a minority only to people who do not speak them. For those who do, minority languages are such an important aspect of our cultural life, and it is important that minority-language broadcasting is funded from the centre and open to all.

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady MacLeod, has made a vital point. Gaelic as an indigenous language is not just an integral part of the culture of these islands but the means of expression of two of the greatest poets of the 20th century, Sorley MacLean and Iain Crichton Smith. There is a statutory duty on the BBC to fund Welsh, which is quite right, but there is no similar statutory duty for Scots Gaelic. The last Government set up the Islands Forum, to ensure that the voice of Gaelic speakers was heard at the heart of Westminster. This Government abolished it. The Lord Speaker, when he was Scottish Secretary, ensured increased broadcasting funding for Gaelic. This Government have not yet made that commitment. Will the Government stand behind Gaelic speakers, whose contribution to our culture is so important?

I agree with the noble Lord on the importance of Gaelic speakers to our national culture. However, there is no one-size-fits-all approach to minority-language broadcasting models and how they are funded. The Scottish and UK Governments have a role to play to help ensure that relevant institutions and organisations have adequate funding so that they can deliver for audiences. We are considering, through charter review, how we can provide more certainty to Gaelic broadcasting and MG Alba.

My Lords, I wish the noble Baroness every success in her campaign to secure funding for Gaelic-language broadcasting. It is a very good campaign. Can the Minister say how the new charter will protect the local independent production sector in Wales from centralisation, as the BBC shifts small services to digital-first formats?

That is a very detailed question and I may have to write to the noble Baroness. Through the charter review, we are trying to make sure that we have a really broad and healthy sustainable model for the future, and it must support the smaller local organisations as well as national organisations. We are keen to make sure that works. I am happy to talk to the noble Baroness about that point.

My Lords, from my time in New Zealand, I saw at first hand the benefit of intentional government investment in Māori-language broadcasting for younger audiences. What steps are His Majesty’s Government taking to ensure that Gaelic-language broadcasting remains accessible and relevant to younger audiences and is not merely retained as a residual service?

I am not sure that describing it as a residual service does justice to the work of the people working in Gaelic-speaking broadcasting. Historically, we have been clear that this must be for every part of the population that speaks the language. What has happened in Wales—we have had an increase in both Welsh and Gaelic speakers over the last couple of decades—demonstrates the power of investment in making sure that people have got access to the language in every part of the culture, and that must include young people and children.

My Lords, another language in Scotland is Scots. Indeed, Burns wrote roughly half his poetry in in Scots, not least “Address to a Haggis”. Can the Minister tell us whether there will be money directed at the preservation of Scots as a language as well in this process?

It is interesting, because I put that point to my officials. Noble Lords will need to wait and see as part of the charter review, but if people are campaigning for Scots to get similar recognition, please encourage them to get involved in the discussions around the charter review.

In supporting my noble friend Lady MacLeod, and as a fellow Celt, I offer the example that Irish-language broadcasting in Northern Ireland is primarily funded by the BBC and the Irish Language Broadcast Fund, which is managed by Northern Ireland Screen and financially supported by DCMS, part of our own Government. Is there a potential solution for Gaelic broadcasting in Scotland in that model?

I think there is, potentially, but we need to make sure that we do not assume that a one-size-fits-all approach works across the piece. I am happy to take suggestions back to the department and to speak to my colleague Ian Murray from the other place about this. We are keen to make sure that all minority languages get what works for that particular area, rather than assuming that one size fits all. On Northern Ireland and Irish-language broadcasting, which works on a cross-border basis, we are keen to continue to support that from DCMS as well.

My Lords, unlike S4C, MG Alba does not have statutory designation as a public service broadcaster, which leaves it more vulnerable to budgetary pressures from the BBC. Only last month, the BBC announced cuts of £500 million and 550 jobs. Is this something that the Government will look at as part of the royal charter review to address the vulnerability that MG Alba and Gaelic broadcasting faces?

It is an interesting point. There is a statutory basis for Welsh broadcasting. Without undermining what we are trying to do in Wales, I refer noble Lords back to the fact that the budget per Gaelic Speaker is considerably higher. A statutory basis on its own is not enough protection, but we will try to work through all these questions and make sure that we look at the models that work in different areas as part of our work in DCMS.