To ask His Majesty’s Government whether they have identified any systemic issues following the discovery of the toxin cereulide in baby milk powder sold in the UK; and if so, what steps they plan to take as a result.

My Lords, Nestlé and Danone launched product recalls of certain infant formula products because of the possible presence of cereulide toxin. This is a live incidence and it is too early to identify any systemic issues.

The Food Standards Agency is working across agencies and with the Department of Health and Social Care to manage the incident response. The FSA has published information on the product recalls on its website, including advice for consumers.

I thank the Minister for her Answer, but I would posit that there is very clearly a well-identified systemic problem that non-mandatory ingredients such as arachidonic acid, which is the source of the current contamination in Nestlé and Danone products, place a burden on infant metabolism and create multiple potential points of microbial and other contamination in the manufacturing process by the four companies that supply the vast bulk of infant formula in this country through complex, for-profit global supply chains. Are the Government going to look into further action on this?

Obviously, we are very concerned about toxins and ensuring that there is no damage done to people: that is the reason for the product recall. The effect of this is that it creates bacteria, so it is like food poisoning in that respect.

With regard to what the noble Baroness has said about ARA oil, the concern of the FSA is very much about safety. What has happened here, as I understand, is that ARA oil is a very common ingredient, but this one appears to have had some contamination, which has affected certain batches, and it is those that are being recalled.

My Lords, what the Minister said is correct, but only partially. Arachidonic acid is the key component that may contain bacillus cereus, which is the product that produces the toxin cereulide, which causes problems for babies including vomiting and diarrhoea. It is the same as any bacteria or virus that causes the gut rot that we often experience. It is a supply chain problem and the current regulatory mechanism relies on self-regulation. That is what needs to be addressed. We had a similar problem in 2008 with another chemical called melamine, which was in milk products and caused kidney damage to babies. Does the Minister agree that it is the regulation of the supply chain and production that needs to be addressed?

As ever, the noble Lord has put things better than I did. I understand the point he is making. The FSA’s role, certainly in the incident response, includes chasing supply chains to identify any additional potential products and businesses. I certainly agree that it is very important to stem any difficulty. But, as it is a live incident, the only point I would make, as I said to the noble Baroness, is that the focus is very much on managing the situation. Therefore, there has not been the opportunity to look into the detail that I agree it needs. That will happen, as it always does, in an incident such as this.

My Lords, is the Minister aware that it took Nestlé four weeks from its first notification of contamination to the Dutch Government to initiate the first product recall on 5 January, following further tests? Does she agree that there should be independent testing, rather than relying on in-house testing by the formula producers? Does she agree that that independent testing should be triggered, at the very least, at the first whiff of any possible contamination?

In my preparation for this Question, which is an important one, I asked a similar question to officials, particularly those from the FSA, and they assured me that testing shows we are meeting the right standards. They also made the point that this is all covered by the Food Safety Act. In their opinion, they have the tools to do the job. I am not aware that there has been something wrong in the management of this live incident, but I am aware that the FSA and the UK Health Security Agency are liaising very closely with the manufacturers to establish the root cause of the possible presence of this toxin. But I can also reassure your Lordships’ House that it is confined to certain batches. That is the information that is going out.

My Lords, providing the best nutrition for children of all ages is surely a “must have”. So, why do the Government allow ultra-processed foods to constitute between two-thirds and three-quarters of calories in UK school meals? They are high in fat, sugar and salt. That is not a good combination.

The noble Earl has moved from food safety to what is in food. Food standards applicable to school meals are both monitored and in place. As he knows, the general advice from the NHS on processed foods is that we would all benefit from eating less of the foods that are high-fat, high-salt and high-sugar. But those foods are not presenting the immediate safety concerns. I make that distinction as we are looking here at toxins in products.

My Lords, of course the best food for babies comes from breastfeeding. May I advocate that we should not lose sight of the fact that many mothers do breastfeed? But I understand the anguish and fear that mothers who cannot breastfeed have had in relation to this incident, and the department needs to do more to make young new mothers aware of the issue, because, as the Minister and I know, there is a shortage of community midwives and health visitors.

That last point is something that will be looked at as part of workforce planning. I totally agree with the noble Baroness about the importance of the multidisciplinary team in supporting new mothers to find the right ways that are suitable for them and best for their baby—and I am glad the noble Baroness accepted that breastfeeding is not possible for everybody.

My Lords, as the grandmother of a baby who was born pre-term, I was very interested in this incident. As far as I could make out, it seems to have been well publicised, and those who might be affected got to know of it very quickly. Is there any evidence that harm has been caused, or did the Food Standards Agency, which was set up to deal with these sorts of things, do a decent job on this occasion?

I am certainly convinced that more than a decent job has been done on this occasion. I know that the FSA, along with the department and the UK Health Security Agency, have, as was said to me, been working non-stop since the incident was notified, and I am genuinely reassured by that. What I would say is that alternatives are available, there is no problem with the supply of alternatives and if anybody—grandmothers, mothers, parents, friends, or whoever—has concerns, they should check the NHS website and the FSA website and, if they remain concerned, they should seek guidance from a medical professional. There are people who are potentially affected, but, as I said, this is a live incident and it is being monitored.

My Lords, I have in the past given notice to the Minister about this, with regard not to milk but to other issues: for example, where small humans, such as embryos or babies, come in contact with fluids or chemicals that might be dangerous. It is not only milk that may need better observation. Does she agree that we should look rather carefully at how we regulate the fluids used for culture of human tissues, in particular embryos, where there may be some risks of not getting better results, or possibly even of danger to the embryo?

Safety is paramount, whether we are talking about embryos, adults or children. I would be pleased to hear from my noble friend if there are particular areas on which he would like to be reassured, or at least responded to. But I hope that, in respect of food safety, in this situation, your Lordships’ House will see that all actions have been taken by the relevant authorities, with speed and in line with the Laws available.