Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top:

Moved by Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top

247: After Clause 55, insert the following new Clause—“Criminal exploitation protection order (CEPO)(1) A criminal exploitation protection order (“CEPO”) is an order which protects a child who meets the condition in subsection (2) from further harm by—(a) prohibiting the child from doing anything described in the order, and(b) requiring the child to do anything described in the order.(2) The condition is that the child has been threatened, forced, intimidated or persuaded to commit criminal acts or actions that support or facilitate criminal activity.(3) A court may include a prohibition or requirement only if it considers it necessary for the purpose of protecting the child from criminal exploitation.(4) Prohibitions and requirements must, so far as practicable, be such as to avoid—(a) any conflict with any religious beliefs of the child;(b) any interference with the times, if any, at which the child normally attends any educational establishment;(c) any conflict with the prohibitions and requirements of any other court order or injunction to which the child is subject.(5) A prohibition or requirement applies throughout the United Kingdom unless expressly limited to a particular area.(6) A CEPO must—(a) specify the period for which it has effect, or(b) state that it has effect until a further order.(7) A CEPO may specify periods for which particular prohibitions or requirements have effect.(8) Where a court makes a CEPO in respect of a child who is already subject to such an CEPO, the earlier CEPO ceases to have effect.(9) The Secretary of State may by regulation made by statutory instrument make provision for the—(a) procedure for making,(b) notification requirements for,(c) variation, discharge and appeal of, and(d) imposition of measures in response to a child breachinga CEPO.”Member’s explanatory statementThis Amendment seeks to create a new “criminal exploitation protection order” (CEPO) to protect children who have been subject to criminal exploitation from further harm. It seeks to protect children from committing criminal acts or being drawn into activity to support or facilitate criminal activity due to criminal exploitation. The order could be complementary to a prevention order (see Chapter 1 of the Bill) that would apply to their adult exploiters.

My Lords, we have already demonstrated today just how complex this issue is. We began talking about it on the last day in Committee and, as I said last week, it affects children and young people in ways we never imagined; nor did we imagine years ago that this would become almost normal for some communities and in some areas. I wish it was simple and easy to say, “They are the victims and they are the perpetrators”. It is not as easy as that. I congratulate my noble friend Lady Brown on her Amendment. We know that when some children and young people have tried to say, “We’re in trouble—can we get help?”, the response from the agencies has largely been, “You’ve committed an offence and we have to make you accountable for that”. I understand that, but in this amendment I am seeking to make another approach possible.

I thank Action for Children and declare my interest as an ambassador for it. I have been involved with Action for Children for virtually my whole life; it used to be a Methodist organisation, the National Children’s Home. I was involved for about 12 years in governance terms, but have always been involved with it. It works around the country, although I know more of its work in the north-east, and this has been an issue for it in Scotland, Wales and the rest of the country, wherever it has been working.

How do we effectively protect young people who are picked up in a whole series of ways by folk who want nothing good for the youngsters but want their crimes to be committed by them so that they can take the blame? They can then put fear into the young people and their families. When the Jay commission looked at this, Action for Children heard from families who really did not know what to do, and the whole family was terrified by the consequences for the young person in their family and for themselves. This amendment seeks ways to properly support the family and the child, as well as to identify and deal with the perpetrator.

I thank the Minister; I know he has been thinking carefully about all these issues. I know too that there has been a lot of consideration of it within the department. I hope he can bear with us as we go through, trying to find more effective ways of supporting the children and young people we are talking about.

The creation of a child criminal exploitation order is very important. I am trying to add this order so that children and young people can be prevented from further harm and criminal exploitation. As it stands, the Bill contains the very welcome measures to sanction exploiters—the perpetrators of harm—but it does not do much to protect the child or young person. We can be a bit stronger on that.

At the moment, the only measures to achieve the purpose of protecting the child from further harm involve criminalising the child. That cannot be right, and I know that it is not where the Government are on this. However, the fact is that neither the police nor the courts have the appropriate tools to focus on the child as the victim, or to provide the necessary support. The creation of this new order would enable the child or young person who may have been made to commit serious offences and be at risk of very significant harm but is still none the less legally a child—and is, in our contention, a victim—to be given protection in ways that are practical and recognise the reality of exploitation.

This amendment has been drafted with immense care, with the involvement of a lot of people and a lot of discussion. It seeks not to have unnecessary impact on children’s other rights, such as their right to education, but the order is essential if we are to uphold the child’s right not to be exploited and to avoid the child being therefore criminalised when they are actually a victim.

One of the problems is if either the young person or the family are not prepared to identify the exploiter or perpetrator, or if they do not know who they really are—if they have been given the wrong name or a codename, for example. As the noble Baroness, Lady Fox, said, a young person may look like the perpetrator, but I can bet there is an older person behind them who is much cleverer and more attuned to how you get round the criminal justice system. That has certainly been my experience. Sometimes, that means you cannot actually identify the exploiter. Therefore, it becomes very difficult to use even the measures currently in the Bill to deal with the situation. We want to be able to deal with the situation and protect the child in their family in ways that mean the exploiter knows they are not going to be able to get near them or interfere with them.

I know that the Government are well aware of the pernicious nature of the criminal exploitation of children. I hope they will think about this additional measure, which is solely around protecting the child, while at the same time trying to identify and take action against the exploiter, which are the rest of the areas covered in the Bill. I am not naive enough to think we can cover everything in legislation—I sometimes sit on these Benches and hear other noble Lords whose lives are about legislation, and think, “Come on”. In the real world, it depends on people, how they see what is going on and what they understand is possible or not possible. I just hope that this would be another tool in the hands of agencies to protect children and make life for the exploiters much more difficult. I beg to move.

My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Gower, for having given my Amendment 235A a positive acclamation. However, I did not move it because it struck me that the amendment we are now debating is actually better than the one I tabled. Therefore, there seemed no point in having a double debate. I listened very carefully to the excellent exposition of the amendment of the noble Baroness, Lady Brown of Silvertown, which is really important.

I came to this having looked after three children’s homes when I was a GP. I became suspicious that there was something funny going on in one of them but could never put a finger on it or get social services to recognise it. However, I am sure there was, because one Christmas the children in that home set fire to it and burnt it down—but I really do not know what was happening, and I never found out.

It is terrifying the layers with which children can be enticed, encouraged and supported into criminal activity and then become quite expert at it. They are terribly intimidated and frightened for their lives. The intimidation may not be overt but covert. They have threats made against them, their families, for their lives, or of mutilation. They get beaten up and all kinds of terrible things happen. That locks them further into a world of criminality.

It therefore seemed that this would be the third side of the triangle, if you like. We talk about prosecuting the exploiter, and we talk about prosecuting the child for whatever crimes they have committed. Let us be honest: these are sometimes very difficult children. They are severely emotionally damaged, very difficult to get close to, and will not disclose to people in authority what is really happening to them, because they are so terrified. Therefore, they may be unwilling to disclose information to the police. Then, we have this gap which still leaves them liable and open to exploitation.

It was with that thought that this amendment, this concept, came forward, to try to close that gap a little bit. I hope when the Minister sums up—and perhaps criticises this Clause, because I anticipate we might be told it is not necessary—that he explains what harm such an order would do. I cannot see how it would make anything worse, but it may certainly make things better, and that was the sentiment behind the support of the Opposition front bench for this concept.

My Lords, when I first saw this new Clause, I did not pay too much attention, but having looked at it in more detail, I support the noble Baroness, Lady Armstrong of Hill Top, and the noble Lord, Lord Russell of Liverpool, since I think they are on to something here. The noble Baroness, Lady Finlay of Llandaff, has confirmed that. I pay tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Russell of Liverpool, who has a long track record of fighting for the rights of children, from trying to save the children’s playground in Victoria Tower Gardens from the Holocaust Memorial Bill to his track record of tabling amendments to this Bill and others.

Researching the Casey review recently with regard to my amendments on grooming gangs prompted me to look at this again. Then, I realised that a CEPO would be valid in dealing with some of the problems caused by those grooming gangs. The criminal exploitation of children is a real, growing concern across the UK, with increasing numbers of young people being coerced, manipulated or forced into criminal activity by adults or older peers.

As the Committee knows, these vulnerable children suffer significant harm, both physically and psychologically, and often find themselves trapped in cycles of offending, unable to escape the influence of exploiters. In response to this issue, the concept of a criminal exploitation protection order is possibly a very sensible idea to offer targeted legal protection for children who have been victims of criminal exploitation.

Existing legal frameworks, while robust in certain areas, do not sufficiently address the unique vulnerabilities of children subject to criminal exploitation. Traditional criminal justice responses may inadvertently criminalise victims—as we have seen all too frequently with the grooming gangs cases—or fail to disrupt the exploitative relationships at the heart of their offending.

A CEPO could fill this gap by prioritising the welfare and protection of exploited children, recognising them as victims rather than solely perpetrators. The order would empower authorities to intervene proactively, preventing further harm and breaking the cycle of exploitation.

The details are not in the Bill, and the regulations will set out the details, but I would expect and hope that the regulations may do the following. On prohibitions, the CEPO could prohibit children from engaging in specified activities that are linked to their exploitation, such as associating with certain individuals, visiting particular locations or possessing items used in criminal activity.

On the positive requirements for the children, the order may require them to take positive steps such as attending counselling, engaging with support services or participating in educational programmes designed to build resilience and reduce vulnerability. Those are just a few examples, but I hope that the regulations would detail a whole range of things that children could be stopped from doing and encourage them to do good things.

Importantly, this is a holistic approach: by combining restrictions on the one hand and supportive measures on the other, the CEPO could address both the immediate risks and underlying factors that contribute to continued exploitation. CEPOs could prevent further harm, as the order would be seen as a protective barrier, reducing the likelihood of children being drawn back into criminal activity and shielding them from exploiters.

CEPOs could break the cycle of exploitation. By disrupting exploitative relationships and providing access to support, they could help children rebuild their lives and avoid repeat victimisation—and that must be a goal. They could also reduce criminalisation. Recognising exploited children as victims would reduce the risk of them being criminalised for actions they were coerced into, which would support a more compassionate and effective response.

Finally, CEPOs could support rehabilitation. They would be grounded in the principles of child protection and welfare, ensuring that any prohibitions or requirements were proportionate, necessary and in the child’s best interests. Robust oversight would also be essential to prevent misuse, and children subject to a CEPO should have access to legal representation and advocacy throughout the process.

I hope that the Government will seriously consider the introduction of a CEPO, which would represent a positive step towards safeguarding children from the devastating effects of criminal exploitation. It is a very worthwhile proposed new clause.

My Lords, I was very happy to add my name, alongside that of the noble Baroness, Lady Armstrong, to this Amendment. I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, who indicated that he wanted to speak before me. He has done sterling service by saying a great deal of what I was going to say, so I will not bore your Lordships with that.

I have one or two confessions. On Methodism, I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Armstrong, that I come from several generations of Methodist ministers—the Reverends MacDonald—one of whom was one of John Wesley’s original disciples. At some point, my family slightly lost the plot and became lapsed Anglicans, like I suspect a lot of your Lordships.

If the Minister is kind enough to mention me again in his response, in promoting me to an Earl, he is doing a disservice to the direct descendant of Lord John Russell, an ex-Prime Minister. I call in evidence a letter that my grandfather and the grandfather of the noble Earl, Lord Russell, wrote to the editor of the Times in 1961, saying: “Dear Sir, we would like to point out that neither of us is the other. Yours, Russell, Russell of Liverpool”. I had to say the same thing to the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, when she also inadvertently promoted me.

I again point out that this proposed new Clause has the absolute support of Professor Jay, who has looked into this issue in more detail than any of the rest of us. I am a great believer that, when trying to argue the case for something, we should not talk about it in abstract or general terms but try to personalise it by talking about a real-life case which perhaps indicates the virtue of having an order such as this. Therefore, I will give a real-life example from the work done by Action for Children.

There is a 16 year-old young man with ADHD who is experiencing significant criminal exploitation, including daily cannabis use, coercion through drug debt and regular threats of violence. His engagement with support services, unsurprisingly, is somewhat inconsistent and is often influenced by the level of control and threats of violence exerted by the exploiters. The police have already made him subject to a youth referral order for drug and weapon offences, but law enforcement has deprioritised his case due to a perceived lack of co-operation. In the circumstances the young man finds himself in, a lack of co-operation with law enforcement is perhaps somewhat understandable. Recent incidents that have occurred to this young man include a violent attack on his home by individuals linked to his exploitation. One of his perpetrators is housed in the same residential block of flats as him, which must be somewhat unpleasant. The young person remains fearful for his and his mother’s safety, but he is unwilling to disclose information, which currently limits statutory Intervention options.

If we had this order, it would enable the authorities to protect that young man and his mother by stopping him from contacting certain people. Following what the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, said, it would mandate him turning up to appointments with support services. It would restrict and monitor his movements to create a distance from the exploiters. In the case of serious threat of harm, or in an instance where a perpetrator is living almost next door, it would also give the authorities the ability to provide alternative accommodation to protect that young person and his family.

For all those reasons, I wish and hope that the Minister and his department will look at this very carefully. A relatively small percentage of child victims and perpetrators may be involved, but to protect them in the way we have described would be effective, proportionate and worth while.

My Lords, I chair a commission on forced marriage. One of the most useful things that the Labour Government did in 2007 was create a forced marriage protection order. That was intended to deal with the perpetrators rather than the victims. However, having listened to the speeches so far, I realised that I had not thought of protection orders being for the victim rather than to prevent the victim being dealt with.

It is an admirable scheme. I was much touched by the story that the noble Lord, Lord Russell of Liverpool, gave to us. One thing that would make it most useful is to deal with parents. My experience is not so much in this area, but when I was a family judge, one of the problems, particularly in care cases, was the inability of the parents to manage their children. Very often, the children were very well meaning, but they absolutely would not do what their parents said. Is anybody who is a parent surprised? As a grandparent, I am even less surprised by the fact that children, if they are told to do something by a parent, will not do it—just out of bloody-mindedness, apart from anything else.

This would offer a genuine ability to look after a child who is being exploited and is extremely vulnerable, but whose parents, trying as hard as they can, cannot manage him or her. This would give them the power, apart from the authorities, to do something useful—and useful not just for the child but for the state.

My Lords, we welcome this Amendment, which would provide a valuable additional tool to protect children who are criminally exploited while at the same time committing criminal acts that victimise others. The amendment seeks to address these behaviours proportionately, managing the child’s risk to others without inflicting the potentially life-changing damage of having a criminal label attached, while ensuring the child is protected from further exploitation.

A criminal exploitation protection order would be an important step towards providing an end-to-end response for children in this situation. Unlike a youth rehabilitation order, it would directly target behaviours linked to child criminal exploitation, addressing the unique power imbalances and coercion involved in those often-complex situations. I urge the Government to look closely at the proposed order, which would be an extremely worthwhile addition to the Bill and which has the full support of these Benches.

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Armstrong of Hill Top, for bringing forward this important Amendment. It speaks to an issue that has been much discussed during the Bill’s passage: the urgent need to protect children who are coerced or manipulated into criminal activity by those who exploit them for profit and control.

Amendment 247 proposes a new Clause to establish a criminal exploitation protection order. This would be aimed directly at safeguarding children who have already been subjected to criminal exploitation, preventing further harm. As the noble Baroness has eloquently explained, these children deserve support and a clear pathway out of exploitation. Undoubtedly, there is merit in exploring whether a new bespoke order focused on the safety and welfare of the exploited child could complement the existing prevention orders in the Bill which target the adult perpetrators. We recognise the intention behind ensuring that prohibitions and requirements are carefully balanced so as not to interfere unnecessarily with education, family life or existing legal orders. From these Benches, we are sympathetic to the objectives of the amendment.

We recognise that introducing new regimes raises practical considerations that must be considered. I therefore look forward to hearing the Government’s response and to further discussion as the Bill progresses. Protecting children from exploitation must be central to this legislation. I thank the noble Baroness for her continued leadership on this issue.

I am grateful to my noble friend Lady Armstrong for Amendment 247. I am grateful to the noble Baronesses, Lady Finlay of Llandaff and Lady Doocey, and the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, for their support for the amendment, and for the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Gower, and the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss. I am sorry to have elevated the noble Lord, Lord Russell of Liverpool—obviously, I was transfixed by the “Liverpool” part of his title. I appreciate his gentle chiding of me for that rookie error, which I still occasionally make after 15 months in this place. I apologise for that.

I hope I can reassure the Committee that the Government are committed to tackling the criminal exploitation of children and to supporting children who are victims of criminal exploitation. There are a number of comprehensive provisions in the Bill. In early December, the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, is meeting the Policing Minister in the Home Office to discuss these issues. I am grateful for her expertise and for the discussions that my noble friend Lady Armstrong has had with Action for Children and colleagues outside of the House.

I fully understand and agree with the desire to safeguard children from the horrific consequences of criminal exploitation. That is why the Government are delivering on the manifesto commitment to bring forward this order, under the clauses that we have discussed, and go after the gangs that are luring young people into violence and crime. Additionally, as the Committee will know, through Clauses 42 to 55 and Schedule 5 to the Bill, the Government’s criminal exploitation prevention orders will place prohibitions and requirements on adults who pose a risk of exploiting children into criminality.

This brings me to the central point of the amendment before us. The Government have considered the position but feel that the most effective way to manage the behaviour of those who have criminally exploited children, or who are at risk of doing so, and to protect children from being criminally exploited are the measures in the Bill. We should be restricting the conduct of the adult perpetrator rather than of the child victim.

I simply say to my noble friend—this is an important point—that for legislation to be effective, there needs to be a consequence for non-compliance. If the measure that she has brought forward was put into legislation, we would be focusing on the child victim and their behaviour. In the event of non-compliance, unless there is a consequence to that—and I am not quite sure what that consequence would be—the proposal would have no legal effect. If a child breaches the prohibition or requirements in an order, the first response could be a further narrowing of the prohibitions or requirements, or varying them. Ultimately, a breach of the order would require a consequence, and I am not sure that we have considered that matter in full.

The Government believe that the measures we are introducing in the Bill will create greater awareness of child criminal exploitation and increase identification of victims, and will ensure that we assist victims in receiving appropriate support. When victims are identified, practitioners will be encouraged to recognise vulnerability, first and foremost, and, I hope, to clearly signal that the children who are used by adults to commit crime are victims of abuse.

I hear what noble Lords have said. Everybody who has spoken has broadly supported the direction of travel. We want to draw on that wealth of experience and insight, which is why my colleagues, the Policing Minister and the Safeguarding Minister in the Home Office, are hosting a round table with experts before Christmas to meet the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, and look at how we can better support children who are victims of crime and potentially perpetrators of crime.

I say to my noble friend that, while I understand the intention behind the amendments, the Government are not persuaded that restrictions on children—for the reasons that I have already outlined and due to the important question of what would happen when a breach occurs—is the right approach. I take the issue very seriously, and I hope that there can be further discussions with the Home Office and my noble friend and the noble Baroness Lady Finlay.

It seems fairly obvious to me that if the order were breached by the child, the child would end up in the family proceedings court preferably, rather than the family criminal court. That could be done by an order, and it might not do any harm for the child. There could be some innovative thinking in the Home Office as to other ways of dealing with this. The real point being made today, if I might remind Minister, is about helping the parents. At the moment, I do not see what else can help the parents. I would be very grateful to know what the Minister thinks about that.

The noble and learned Baroness, with all her experience, brings forward one potential output of a breach of an order, and I accept that that is a potential output. The point I am making to my noble friend is that we want to discuss what happens to the child and the range of consequences. That is why my Honourable Friend the Policing Minister and my honourable friend Jess Phillips, the Safeguarding Minister, are meeting agencies in this field to look at what is going to happen. That is planned for before Christmas. There is a separate meeting with the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay. Although the noble and learned Baroness has brought forward one consequence, I want to look at all the issues. I am not able to accept the Amendment before us because that is one of the issues that is not resolved. Therefore, although I understand the desire behind this, I ask that my noble friend withdraws her amendment today and allows for reflection to occur.

I am most grateful to the Minister and look forward to the meeting. To pick up the point made by the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, I wonder whether the Minister, in tackling this, recognises that many times, the so-called parents will be someone who has legal responsibility but who actually may not be helping the child. One of the issues with an order such as this would potentially be making sure that those who have legal responsibility for a child also have a duty to try to enforce the protection of that child. That may mean a change in their own behaviours. It is a complicated issue. I am grateful to the Minister for having listened so carefully and to the Home Office for recognising that somehow, something has to be done. This might not be perfect, but we cannot leave a big gap there.

I accept and understand that young children will be impacted by the potential behaviour of the parent, or indeed the lack of behaviour by the parent. The suggestion of the order may be a contributing factor which might assist with that. I have tried to point out to the Committee that there are a number of issues. First, this would be an order against the child, which is a big issue. Secondly, there would have to be a consequence for a breach. Thirdly, the Government’s focus in the Bill is on action on adults. Those are three issues that I put on the table for the Committee and which lead me to ask my noble friend to withdraw the Amendment.

However, the engagement and discussions, both with the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay of Llandaff, and with the coalition of groups that have a concern about this, will continue before Christmas. That will obviously give the mover of the amendment an opportunity to reflect upon it. But in the meantime, I urge her to withdraw the amendment.

My Lords, I thank everyone for their contributions to this debate and to the previous one.

This is complex and we all want to have good outcomes. I appreciate that the Minister is saying that we need more discussion and to make sure that we address this issue in a way that safeguards children and young people but also deals with perpetrators and potential perpetrators and makes sure that the families of the children and young people are engaged in the way that we sort things out. The real problem is that it is much more than just Home Office business, which I appreciate. However, Members of this House have made great strides in at least beginning to identify the issues, reflecting our discussions and experiences from outside. That is important. I look forward to continuing to engage with the Government and the Minister in the next period of time so that we can come up with something that people will have confidence in. In that spirit, I therefore seek to withdraw the Amendment.

Amendment 247 withdrawn.

House resumed. Committee to begin again not before 2.22 pm.