Part of House of Lords (Hereditary Peers) Bill - Report (1st Day) (Continued) – in the House of Lords at 11:15 pm on 2 July 2025.
Baroness Smith of Basildon
Leader of the House of Lords and Lord Privy Seal
11:15,
2 July 2025
I apologise; I was demoting him. He was a Chief Whip, so he should know even better that a Third Reading Amendment is brought back only if the Minister offers to keep something open at Third Reading. I will tell noble Lords why I cannot do that on his amendment. I will be very clear about this. We had a discussion earlier and spoke about the problems of legislation by SI and Henry VIII powers. The noble Lord proposes, within his way of working, that we should take decisions on quite serious and important issues by SI. It is inventive and it is a way he would want to do it, but I do not think a simple resolution such as that is the appropriate way forward. It would also give the other place the opportunity to reject it as well; I do not think that is appropriate. The existing mechanisms or primary legislation would be a better way forward.
The noble Viscount, Lord Hailsham, has been very thoughtful throughout this debate. His amendment stipulates that the next stage of reform requires, among other things, changing the appointments process to limit the discretion of the Prime Minister and party leaders. We have already discussed that, and I think the House made its view clear on the previous vote, so I do not want to repeat the same arguments. As I have said before, we are committed to strengthening and clarifying the roles and responsibilities in the appointments process, which we discussed earlier.
The noble Viscount also talked about term limits and a size cap on the House. As I have said before, the Government’s preference is for a retirement age. That is something, along with participation, that a committee of this House could look at. His amendment does, in effect, deal with the size of the House, which is a very important issue. I am afraid that the noble Viscount, Lord Trenchard, went way beyond some of the issues we are discussing here, but I noted the comments that he made.
I apologise if, in responding to the lengthy debates in Committee, I did not respond specifically to the point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Howard of Lympne. I think the point he was asking me to come back on was why a commitment to retaining hereditary Peers that was made 25 years ago is not being kept today. One Parliament does not bind another, and that decision was taken then. It would have been better had decisions and actions been taken more quickly, but that did not happen. One of the reasons I am proposing the Select Committee route—which could be prior to, or with, legislation, or we could do something ourselves—is that, when a long period of time elapses and new people come in, new commitments are made and new Parliaments are elected, it is very easy for these things to happen. We need to move more quickly and avoid the very problems that have caused him concern.
The house of Lords is the upper chamber of the Houses of Parliament. It is filled with Lords (I.E. Lords, Dukes, Baron/esses, Earls, Marquis/esses, Viscounts, Count/esses, etc.) The Lords consider proposals from the EU or from the commons. They can then reject a bill, accept it, or make amendments. If a bill is rejected, the commons can send it back to the lords for re-discussion. The Lords cannot stop a bill for longer than one parliamentary session. If a bill is accepted, it is forwarded to the Queen, who will then sign it and make it law. If a bill is amended, the amended bill is sent back to the House of Commons for discussion.
The Lords are not elected; they are appointed. Lords can take a "whip", that is to say, they can choose a party to represent. Currently, most Peers are Conservative.
As a bill passes through Parliament, MPs and peers may suggest amendments - or changes - which they believe will improve the quality of the legislation.
Many hundreds of amendments are proposed by members to major bills as they pass through committee stage, report stage and third reading in both Houses of Parliament.
In the end only a handful of amendments will be incorporated into any bill.
The Speaker - or the chairman in the case of standing committees - has the power to select which amendments should be debated.
The House of Lords. When used in the House of Lords, this phrase refers to the House of Commons.
The government chief whip, whose official title is parliamentary secretary to the Treasury, is appointed by the prime minister and is responsible to him.
The chief whip has to maintain party discipline and to try to ensure that members of the party vote with the government in important debates.
Along with the other party whips he or she looks after the day-to-day management of the government's business in Parliament.
The chief whip is a member of the Cabinet.
It is customary for both the government and the opposition chief whips not to take part in parliamentary debates.
The chief whip's official residence is Number 12 Downing Street.
As a bill passes through Parliament, MPs and peers may suggest amendments - or changes - which they believe will improve the quality of the legislation.
Many hundreds of amendments are proposed by members to major bills as they pass through committee stage, report stage and third reading in both Houses of Parliament.
In the end only a handful of amendments will be incorporated into any bill.
The Speaker - or the chairman in the case of standing committees - has the power to select which amendments should be debated.
Ministers make up the Government and almost all are members of the House of Lords or the House of Commons. There are three main types of Minister. Departmental Ministers are in charge of Government Departments. The Government is divided into different Departments which have responsibilities for different areas. For example the Treasury is in charge of Government spending. Departmental Ministers in the Cabinet are generally called 'Secretary of State' but some have special titles such as Chancellor of the Exchequer. Ministers of State and Junior Ministers assist the ministers in charge of the department. They normally have responsibility for a particular area within the department and are sometimes given a title that reflects this - for example Minister of Transport.
