Lord Whitty:

Moved by Lord Whitty

9: After “communities” insert “and projects providing for workforce planning and training to ensure adequate jobs and skills in a fair transition to cleaner energy”

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness on the Woolsack for that clarification.

I applaud completely Amendment 8, and am glad that the Government have moved this amendment which reflects the discussion in Committee. However, I am deeply disappointed that they failed to reflect an amendment that I tabled in Committee and had hoped that Ministers would accept. I find it quite extraordinary that, in a Labour Government’s proposition on the transformation of the energy sector, there is no clear reference to the workforce, workforce planning or raising skills.

We are, in effect, transforming over time a workforce whose most skilled and probably best paid employees work on oil wells to then operate in the wind sector, other renewable energy sectors and the nuclear sector. We wish to transform the generation end, but it affects the distribution and transmission end as well, where the whole system has to be changed and made more connected. The development of storage and new skills will be required, right through to the retail end where today’s jobbing electricians, gas fitters and plumbers will have to change their skills to fit in with the new energy form. But the Bill does not mention it.

I criticised the Conservative Government, who had much longer Bills where the words “skills” and “workforce” did not appear, but this Bill, on the strategic requirement for Great British Energy, which will be a major mover in this area, does not really mention skills. I hope, therefore, that the Minister will accept that there is a requirement and bring forward an amendment at Third Reading which reflects that.

I gently say to the Ministers on the Front Bench that, unless we reflect on that, we are going to lose some support among the existing workforce and those who might be thinking of training to enter the workforce. This applies to other Bills as well; if I were capable of being in two places at the same time, I would be making the same point on the buses Bill, where a relatively elderly workforce is going to be faced with a transformation in technology and regulation. I might also have made the same point on the railways Bill.

I gently say to my colleagues on the Front Bench that these are quite heavily unionised industries that they are proposing to transform. It would be good to have the representatives of the existing workforce, and, potentially, the future workforce, on-side in the job of Great British Energy and the Government. I declare an interest as a member of the GMB and the former general secretary of Unite and UNISON. We are at an early stage, and the Government need to recognise that representation will be important during this transformation of a very important sector. I hope they will recognise that and commit to putting something in the Bill for Third Reading.

I will make a brief remark in relation to Amendment 14, which the noble Earl, Lord Russell, has spoken to. I gather that the Government are going to oppose that amendment, and indeed I am not too happy with the wording myself. But it is important that Great British Energy has responsibility not just for energy generation and distribution but for energy efficiency, and that it has the ability to step into this field. I hope the Minister makes that clear.

Meanwhile, on my main point, I hope to have a more positive reply from my noble friend the Minister, who has been very helpful in other respects. I hope we have some positive news.

I will speak to government Amendment 8 about community energy supplies. The noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle, said that, when she was at Eton, there was nobody there who wanted to have a small modular nuclear reactor near to their home. This is something that I think may be more widespread than just Eton. I suspect that many people will be looking at the value of their houses and thinking that if they have a small modular reactor power station nearby, the value of their house may drop.

Therefore, I ask the Minister whether his idea of community energy supplies includes offering either cheap or free energy to people who live in the locality. That would make an awful lot of difference to the acceptability of SMRs—I once again declare my modest shareholding in Rolls-Royce—because then you might well have a situation where a buyer of a house that is slightly close to a small modular reactor gets a deal for either cheap or free energy. It is very important to make these things acceptable to people in the locality. I suspect that, if it is possible for the people who are putting in the small modular reactor to say to people locally that they can have cheap or free energy, that may well go an awful long way to making these things acceptable in a way which they otherwise would not be.

Before the noble Member sits down, will he address the point that many of the sites that have been earmarked for SMRs are existing nuclear sites? Any effect on property values has probably already happened, and those sites clearly have an appeal for such SMR projects.

I totally accept that fact, and people have certainly got used to having much bigger reactors on those sites and so will not worry about it. I have ambitions, though, for SMRs that go way beyond existing sites. There are not that many of them in this country, and I hope that we will have an awful lot more. When I come to move my amendment later on in the evening, I will be making reference to the fact that we might have a small modular reactor for specific purposes.

My Lords, I will intervene very briefly on this debate, and I declare my interest as chair of Peers for the Planet. I have just a couple of points on the issues that have been raised. First, to follow up on what the noble Lord, Lord Hamilton, said, the idea of ensuring that communities gain the benefits of infrastructure that is near to them applies not only to small modular reactors but to many other things. In particular, the House knows of my concern for onshore wind and an increase in onshore wind developments. We have to do that in a way so the community, first, understands why we are doing it, and secondly, sees some benefit from those projects, whether on an individual or community level.

The other thing—and I of course welcome the government amendment on community energy—is that I very much agree with the spirit of what the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, said. Some of us get very weary trying to inject the same issues of principle into legislation after legislation. Skills and the needs of the workforce, and the way we practically turn aspirations for green growth and green jobs into satisfying, well-paid, sustainable jobs, has to be done through the nitty-gritty of skills training, passporting and making sure that the opportunities are there for transition and for young people. It is enormously important that the Government and GBE do not lose sight of that.

In exactly the same spirit, we have banged on— if that is a parliamentary phrase—about home insulation and energy efficiency on any number of Bills. If I may say so to the noble Earl, Lord Russell, it is probably slightly inelegant to put that in the Bill as a hypothetical for what GBE might want to do, but the spirit of what he is saying, and the fact that this has been such a recurring theme, is absolutely central: it has so many benefits in saving money, saving emissions, increasing health and ensuring that we lift people out of the poverty that is occasioned by the housing in which they live. I hope that the Minister can give us some encouragement that the warm homes strategy, or whatever we are calling it this time—we have called it lots of different things over the years but have not been very successful in delivering it—will be a high priority for the Government.

My Lords, I will speak to Amendment 22, in my name and those of the noble Baronesses, Lady Boycott and Lady Young, and the noble Lord, Lord Teverson. I congratulate the Government on bringing forward their Amendment 8. I imagine that it will find favour with the House rather than Amendment 22, but I will take the opportunity to press the Minister on a couple of aspects, just to give me reassurance that he means more than the warm words that we see expressed in his amendment.

In particular, how do the Government intend to deal with the current uncertainty over the community energy fund’s future? Is the Minister able to give us a guarantee of how that will pan out? Also, does he intend to take, or encourage GB Energy to take, early action to ensure that the fund will be matched by other funds, as I understand needs to be done, and that clear instructions on the above will indeed be set out in the strategic priorities for Great British Energy, as required by Clause 5?

I am not that familiar with community energy schemes, but I have seen how they operate in Denmark—I declare my interest, being half Danish and taking a great interest in Danish matters. I understand that they are so successful in Denmark because there is a system where local citizens, often organised in co-operatives, which again is very Danish—Arla is a co-operative in the milk industry that many here are familiar with—own a significant portion of renewable energy sources, such as wind farms and heat networks. Does the Minister agree that community ownership is part of the success of these schemes and that that is a path down which he would seek to go?

My Lords, I will speak briefly to my Amendment 53, which seeks to ensure that the voices of local people are heard when proposals are made or encouraged by GB Energy for renewable energy projects that impact on local areas. This is a group about community involvement and consultation, and how people might have their say. I regret to say that, in so many cases, local people have been airbrushed from the debate, which has been conducted above their heads. We build resentment, scepticism and resistance when local people are denied their say. I speak with authority when I say that the NSIP system is being systematically abused by developers of solar farms, who string together otherwise stand-alone and discrete proposals for small-scale solar and aggregate them together as a device to somehow creep over the threshold. The voices of the local planning authority, locally elected representatives, local people and business are excised from the record.

The NSIP system was designed to allow truly exceptional and impactful infrastructure projects to be considered in the national context. I completely support that principle, but I see in my own area, for example, that one proposal, extending to 1,100 hectares but covering 40 square kilometres and at least a dozen separate landowners some 15 miles apart, has been cobbled together in the crudest and most cynical manner to creep over that 100-megawatt capacity line. It undermines public confidence in our planning system and acts as a recruiting sergeant for conspiracy theorists and their superficial, fundamentalist views. We will all become tainted and tarred by their brush while we deny the public due process and a proper say on these schemes, which should be decided locally but are not.

Later, on Amendments 50 and 52, I will say that solar should not be permitted on the best and most versatile land—grades 1 to 3A. I recognise that other land could be used for large-scale renewables, but we need to exercise care and caution. Even grade 4 or grade 5 land has a value, but that is more likely to include amenity value, outstanding landscape contribution or wider social benefit, perhaps in areas of outstanding natural beauty or other designations. It is for that reason that, for all land—even in cases where land may be at the poorer end of agricultural quality—changes in use to renewables more widely should be consulted on for residents within a 20-mile buffer of the widest proposed land extent. My amendment provides for this stipulation.

It is because the NSIP system is being abused and has fallen into disrepute that I have brought this amendment to repair the damage and indignation that local people rightly feel. We are storing up some terrible problems if the political class structurally sidelines views in an unthinking dash for renewables and fails to consider those wider impacts.

My Lords, I rise briefly too to speak to my Amendment 22. I am very grateful for all the support of so many noble Lords, and I am thrilled to be standing here after so many attempts to get community energy into the statute books. I note the work of Power for People, which has done a fantastic job over the years to make this happen.

Following on from the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, my sister has lived in Denmark for over 50 years now and she has had a financial stake in a wind farm for a very long time. She gets good, reliable, cheap energy. They really like it; it makes you feel like part of something.

I do not support the Liberal Democrats’ amendment that GB Energy should have to pay for all the home insulation, but I am extremely worried about where this money is going to come from. I do not see a place. We all understand that we have to do something about homes, for all the many reasons that the noble Earl, Lord Russell, and the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, set out, yet there seems to be a bit of a black hole, as we call it, in this department. You cannot get everything out of the GB Energy fund, and it is right that it should be ring-fenced around the actual production of the new green fuels that we all need, but there needs to be a be a really tough plan. I would be very interested to know what the Government have in store.

The aim of my amendment is not that GB Energy should pay for it; I feel that GB Energy would be a good body to deliver it.

Okay.

My Lords, may I add to the outbreak of harmony by thanking the noble Earl, Lord Russell, and the Minister for Amendment 8? As the noble Baroness, Lady Boycott, said, it is great to see local community benefit coming on to the face of the Bill. Especially since all the supporting material about GB Energy is very strong on community energy schemes, it just seemed rather crazy that it was not in the Bill, so I say thank you for that.

Ideally, of course—we environmentalists are miserable people who always want more, so I am moving on to Amendment 22, to which I also have added my name—with the Government having gone as far as Amendment 8, which puts community energy schemes on the face of the Bill, it would be quite nice to get slightly more specific recognition that such schemes need to be part of the strategic priorities. Therefore, can the Minister say why he will not accept Amendment 22, which I assume he will not support?

My Lords, I shall join in the general outbreak of harmony that has struck your Lordships’ House and welcome government Amendment 8 on community energy. This is one more demonstration that campaigning works—but, boy, does it often take quite a long while. I really must commend Community Energy England, Green Alliance, and Peers for the Planet, which have all been pushing this issue for a very long time. I also commend your Lordships’ House collectively, because your Lordships may recall that, in the previous Government’s Energy Bill—now an Act—this was the last amendment standing, as we defended again and again the need to include community energy on the face of that Bill. Perhaps this is a demonstration to your Lordships’ House that it is a good idea to stand up for principles, because eventually you will get there, even if it takes some time.

To echo the remarks of the noble Baronesses, Lady Young and Lady McIntosh, yes, we would like to see the Government go further, both in the strategic priorities and in the sense that we need long-term, stable policies. I remember meeting so many community energy groups that were just about ready to go when the feed-in tariff was ripped out from underneath them and their projects collapsed after so much voluntary effort had been put in. The people doing this need the certainty to know that this will work and deliver, and that means long-term, stable policies.

Turning to Amendment 14 in the name of the noble Earl, Lord Russell, I can say that, based on the clarification that he has just provided, the Green group will be pleased to support his amendment, should he press it to the vote.

In the previous group, we were talking about Drax, which has benefited from £6 billion of subsidies since 2012, which the people and the planet cannot afford anymore. Imagine if that £6 billion had gone into home energy efficiency instead; there is good evidence to show that we would have needed so much less generation in the first place. The cleanest, greenest energy that you can possibly have is the energy that you do not need to use. There are not only the environmental benefits and the cost-of-living benefits, as huge as they are; there are also the public health benefits, since so many people live in unhealthy homes. Your Lordships’ House often talks about productivity and all the people of working age who are not in paid work. The quality of our homes is a big issue there, and that must not be forgotten as an added bonus, as well as the environmental and cost-of-living ones.

My Lords, I too very much welcome the Government’s Amendment 8 and thank the Minister for the productive engagement we had in between Committee and Report.

I also thank the Minister for facilitating the very useful discussion with the CEO of Great British Energy on local area energy planning, which tunes into some of the things we are doing in the Midlands. I would welcome a brief reassurance from the Minister on local area energy planning and how that is to be taken forward. One of the concerns is that it is absolutely vital to get local authorities engaged in the process and have that bottom-up view on energy assistance governance to match the top-down view that will be brought forward in the spatial strategic energy plan, as other noble Lords have said. Local energy planning is central to that, but we have seen a great disparity in the UK, with large, well-funded combined authorities and councils taking a rigorous approach, but other, less well-funded ones simply not having the resources to do that. Great British Energy could provide a key role here in funding local authorities and in having that view across the system of local area energy planning. I would welcome some reassurance from the Minister on the way forward for local area energy plans. Will they be one of the things that Great British Energy invests in?

My Lords, I support the Government’s Amendment 8. It is good that the Government have introduced this amendment so that Great British Energy can facilitate, encourage and participate in local community energy projects. I pay tribute to the noble Earl, Lord Russell, for the work he has done on this, as well as a number of different campaigning organisations and other Members of your Lordships’ House. This is a very important amendment, and it will be a great help to a whole range of different community organisations.

I also support the comments made by the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, and the noble Earl, Lord Russell, in pressing the Minister about the community energy fund. Some reassurance there would be very helpful.

Village halls, sports centres, voluntary youth organisations and churches could all benefit from being able to generate local energy for local people. I certainly see the potential for our churches, which have wonderful south-facing roofs. With the planning consent given to King’s College Chapel in Cambridge to have solar panels and other landmark projects such as York Minister and Salisbury Cathedral, there are new opportunities emerging.

I warn your Lordships that, if you are ever invited to go to a dedication of solar panels on a church roof, just beware. When I went to dedicate the solar panels on the roof of St Peter Mancroft church in the centre of Norwich back in September, a very observant member of the public rang 999, saying that a youth was stealing lead off the roof. When I came down, having dedicated the solar panels, I had to answer to two local police officers who had turned up—it was a great compliment to be called a youth, though.

This is important work for community groups and the charitable sector to be able to contribute to their local communities in new ways, particularly in areas of low economic activity, and to provide income for their sustainability. There is a challenge that I wanted the Minister to be aware of, however. The connection charge that is asked for to upgrade the electricity connection to many churches and community centres often prohibits them being able to do this sort of work. In the diocese I serve, St Margaret’s church in Lowestoft has just been quoted a sum of around £100,000 to make the connection. That means that the project is just unaffordable, so we need to be creative and think more about how community groups can be able to engage.

But I warmly support the Government bringing forward their Amendment 8.

My Lords, I too very much welcome the Government’s amendment. I would also like to congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Boycott, on her work to get her amendment there, which I think added pressure. The noble Lord, Lord Whitty, has made a very good point. It may be something that will carry on in other Bills as we go through the Session.

I want to talk briefly about the amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Fuller. There is some truth in it, but I think it is an amendment in the wrong Bill. This whole area of land use will come in when the Government finally bring forward their land use legislation. I would point out that onshore wind has a very small footprint in terms of agricultural land. If we had that 20-mile radius, I am thinking of the first field south of London that has, perhaps, a very modest wind farm or a single turbine. It would probably require a consultation with some 5 million people for that one turbine. So, I think it is the wrong place and the wrong amendment for this Bill, and it discriminates against certain parts of renewable energy. There is something in it in relation to land use that does need to be pursued, but perhaps in a Bill to come later in this parliamentary Session.

My Lords, I have glad tidings for the noble Baroness, Lady Boycott, regarding her concerns. There are between 23 million and 27 million homes in this country still using gas for heating, cooking and warmth. Clearly, that has to be tackled. The answer is quite simple, but complicated as well. The answer is that modern electric boilers can replace all those gas boilers, without having to dig and provide new hydrogen pipes and all sorts of other such complications.

The snag is that electricity is so hopelessly expensive. That is the deterrent. Here we are, wishing to transform millions of homes away from gas, and the pipes then will all become redundant. We can put in modern electric boilers, which can do the job just as well, but the cost goes up rapidly. If only we could focus on how to reduce the cost of electricity by building rapidly—which we are not doing—the cheaper, smaller modular reactors and cheaper devices for producing electricity, and even using more hydrogen on the electricity side; that is another story that we have not really discussed. Even on that basis, we are facing the problem that electricity is very expensive. As long as we keep it that way, as long as we play that game in relation to the overall energy cost, we are shooting ourselves busily in both feet.

My Lords, the topic of community energy was raised several times in Committee by noble Lords on all sides of the House, because it is a highly important aspect of energy provision. When in government, we introduced the community energy fund, which provided funding to specifically target the community energy sector. So, I would concur with noble Lords that it is very important that communities are involved, as they are able to raise and solve issues that are unique to their local community.

My Lords, I will first say that I am grateful to noble Lords for their support for my Amendment 8. I echo what the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, said about the success of campaigning. She might have recognised the Government’s role in this, but she did not quite get that over the line. But there is always hope.

On the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Hamilton, about community benefits, I agree with the principle; we are looking at community benefit schemes. I have told noble Lords before about my visit to Biggleswade wind farm, where the company involved is giving around £40,000 a year to the local community. Certainly, we need to look at schemes like that and see what we can do to extend them.

As regards nuclear and that interesting discussion, the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, made it very clear that the existing sites contained in the last statement will always be recognised for what they offer. We are not seeking to undermine their potential; we are simply saying that we need a more flexible siting policy in the future.

The noble Lord did not mention Wylfa, so I will. Of course, he will know that Wylfa was identified as one of the sites in the last statement. Clearly, it still offers many potential opportunities. There was a great deal of interest earlier this week in the planning inspector’s report, which purportedly came out against the development of Wylfa. I, for one, think that it offers great potential.

Within the new national policy statement there is still a restriction, so that even small modular reactors—even advanced nuclear reactors, generation 4-type reactors—can be sited only in semi-rural or rural areas. We still have criteria around that. I am thinking about Eton. The playing fields are extensive and there is a lot of green land around, so I am not quite sure, but I suspect that it is hedged in by things to do with castles and lots of people as well. The point is that we see huge potential for small modular reactors. The point is well taken and the new planning statement will encourage that.

In relation to my amendment, I very much take the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Ravensdale, about local plans, and the links with local authorities and combined authorities. He and I have had a very fruitful discussion. I should acknowledge the contribution that Midland Engine has played, and his role in it. He has discussed with me the sort of work that has been done in the Midlands in relation to energy. I am very excited by that. I want to see, in any new configuration of local government, mayors and combined authorities, that that work is taken forward.

I also acknowledge the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Norwich. I can only express my admiration for his bravery in climbing on the roof of a parish church, and for the contribution of the Church in this area. A few months ago, in Birmingham, I met a group of church people interested in community energy; the potential is clearly there. I take his point in relation to connections and I will ensure that that is considered by my officials. Clearly, we cannot expect to see community energy develop if there are so many obstacles put in its way.

One of the great advantages of Great British Energy is around trying to help these schemes come to fruition. That does not mean to say that I can wave a magic wand and deal with the connection.

Sitting suspended.

My Lords, I have already spoken to my Amendment 8 and I now turn to Amendment 9 from my noble friend Lord Whitty, which is an amendment to my amendment. I had an opportunity for a very useful discussion with him after Committee. On jobs—the skilled people in the industry— I make it clear to the House that in Great British Energy’s policy priorities its mission is to drive clean energy deployment, boost energy independence and create jobs, alongside the other important aims. The GBE founding statement is explicit that GBE will boost the number of skilled jobs in this essential industry.

The statement of strategic priorities will reiterate these points and provide some more detail, and I am confident that GBE will take strongly on board the point that my noble friend has raised. We have already said that we expect trade unions to have a role in GBE, and I think the appointment as a non-executive director of my noble friend Lady O’Grady, the former general secretary of the TUC, supports this. I would also very much like to arrange a meeting between my noble friends to discuss this further.

On Amendment 22, we expect the statement of strategic priorities to outline any areas or programmes of activity that the Government would like GBE to prioritise in pursuit of its objectives. The problem with the wording of this amendment is that it would distort the work of GBE by placing community energy above and beyond the company’s other strategic priorities.

On Amendment 25, to support community energy groups to access funding and establish themselves in all areas of the UK—a point I made earlier—GBE will provide commercial, technical and project planning assistance, increasing the capability and capacity to build a pipeline of successful projects in local areas. Our local power plan will ensure coherence with other public sector advisory functions, and funding and finance organisations operating in the local energy space.

On community funds, of course we recognise the important role that community groups play in our efforts to tackle climate change and the sector asks around future funding. Great British Energy will build on the community energy fund by partnering with and providing funding and support to community energy groups to roll out renewable energy projects and develop, as noble Lords have said, up to 8 gigawatts of power. Further details will be set out shortly, but that is as far as I can go tonight.

As far as Amendment 14 is concerned, I make it clear to the noble Earl, Lord Russell, that there is no question about the importance of what he said about the challenge we face in relation to our building stock. That is therefore the challenge of our warm homes plan. We do not agree with the amendment because we do not think it should be the role of GBE to roll out the warm homes plan. I think he was talking about a wider principle than specifically the Bill and the role of GBE.

The warm homes plan has to be seen as a vital component of our ambition to become a clean energy superstar. As a first step we have committed an initial £3.4 billion in the next three years towards heat decarbonisation and household energy efficiency, and £1 billion of that has been allocated in the 2025-26 financial year. The intention is to upgrade up to 5 million homes across the country over this Parliament by accelerating the installation of efficient new technologies such as heat pumps, solar, batteries and insulation and to work and partner with combined authorities and local and devolved governments to roll this out. I accept that this is essentially a first step. It is a really challenging area, alongside our industrial processes. We will set out further details on the warm homes plan in due course, and we think that is the best way to proceed.

Finally, there are two responses to Amendment 53 tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Fuller, with whom I had the opportunity of a very useful discussion. I do not think it necessary to constrain GBE. Any development in which it is involved and provides finance will be subject to the existing stringent planning regulations, although we hope to see reform of our planning system, and the environmental impact assessments in environmental legislation that is brought to bear when considering these applications. The noble Lord’s argument should be with the planning system and environmental protections. The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, is right—we do not think that this Bill is the appropriate place for these proposals.

My Lords, I will withdraw this amendment to an amendment. I tabled it because Clause 3(2) restricts the objects without mentioning the workforce. If my noble friend has other ways of dealing with this, that is fine.

Amendment 9 (to Amendment 8) withdrawn.

Amendment 8 agreed.

Amendments 10 to 13 not moved.