Baroness Young of Old Scone:

Moved by Baroness Young of Old Scone

46: Clause 5, page 3, line 8, at end insert “which in his or her opinion will assist the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions, improvements in energy efficiency, the security of energy supplies and a more diverse ownership of energy facilities (including community ownership) that benefit people and communities.”

My Lords, if one were of a nervous disposition, one would be alarmed at the clearing of the Chamber that the simple act of standing up to move an Amendment can provoke in this House.

I will speak to Amendment 46 in my name and those of the noble Baronesses, Lady Hayman—who, alas, cannot be with us today due to family illness—and Lady Boycott. It deals with the priorities that the Government will set for Great British Energy, and returns to the issue of community energy, which was given an airing by the noble Earl, Lord Russell, in the previous Committee session.

Amendment 46 inserts into Clause 5 a specific requirement that the strategic objectives of GB Energy should include delivering reductions in emissions, improvements in energy efficiency, security of energy supplies and a more diverse range of ownership of energy facilities—especially community energy schemes—whether connected to the grid or providing energy solely for local communities.

The mention of community energy in the debate about Clause 3 was very much about the objects of GB Energy. The amendments in this group are more about framing the articles of association of the company, in line with the strategic priorities that the Government impose on GB Energy. Clause 5 is more specifically about what the Government will determine on the strategic priorities and plans for GB Energy. I believe that the Bill should specify that the key issues outlined in this amendment be included in the objectives and plans. Clause 3 is about what GB Energy could do; Clause 5 is about what it will do. It is important that these priorities are on the face of the Bill.

In the case of community energy schemes, your Lordships will be glad to hear that I do not intend to repeat the excellent case made by the noble Earl, Lord Russell, in speaking to his amendment to Clause 3.

The grouping of amendments in Committee on this Bill has been interesting—I think that is the word—but it has had one silver lining in that it has given us opportunity to debate energy community for a second time. One can never have too many debates about community energy.

Much of the promotional material around Great British Energy has been clear that it will play a role in supporting community energy. Community energy schemes are important if we are to persuade local communities that the disruption and downsides of renewables development and rewiring the grid have something for them by way of cheaper, greener, more secure energy in which they have a stake.

Local power plans, including community energy schemes, are one of the five priorities for Great British Energy that were put forward in the founding statement. If all these assurances and promises represent genuine commitment, why not put this in the Bill, as my amendment proposes, as indeed does Amendment 50 in the name of the noble Earl, Lord Russell, which I also support?

During the debate on his amendment in the previous Committee session, the noble Earl, Lord Russell, indicated praise for Jürgen Maier, who is on record supporting a role for GB Energy in community energy. But Mr Maier is also on record as saying at a parliamentary hearing that he did not believe that community energy had the potential to generate gigawatts. This does not gel with the assurances that we have been given by the Government both in their manifesto and during the passage of this Bill in the other place.

I very much welcome the fact that my noble friend the Minister undertook to give greater consideration to community energy schemes and their place in the Bill between Committee and Report. I hope he will reach a conclusion on the basis of that consideration, which would result in the role of Great British Energy in community energy appearing in the Bill to ensure, above all, that confidence is not lost by communities or investors alike.

I thank my noble friend for giving way. She has asked me a question so I might as well answer it. What that means is that the Government have not committed ourselves to a position, but we are looking seriously at the arguments that we received when we debated this issue last time.

I thank the Minister for that Intervention. It reveals the importance of having more than one debate about community energy that he has now said that twice. I beg to move.

I will speak to my Amendment 46A and to Amendment 46, to which I have added my name. I also support Amendments 50 and 51A in this group, among others. I tabled Amendment 46A because I want to ascertain from the Minister whether this was something that GB Energy would or could be doing. As drafted, this amendment, very simply, requires Great British Energy to deliver a public information and engagement campaign on the work it is doing as part of the transition to clean energy—about renewables, reducing greenhouse gas, improving energy efficiency and contributing towards energy security.

The first inquiry that I was part of in the then newly established Environment and Climate Change Committee, which was under the wonderful chairmanship of the noble Baroness, Lady Parminter, was on public engagement —or, to be quite honest, after many months of looking at it, the lack of it. Shortly after that inquiry, the Skidmore review also identified that public engagement is the missing piece of the puzzle. I am really not sure how much the dial has moved since then in this Government and certainly in the previous one. With GBE being a government-owned company, we could decide here and now, today, that the Government are going to take an active role in this; I think, and many others agree, that this would have a very beneficial knock-on effect.

The reason it is important may not be abundantly obvious at first, so I shall just lay out why I believe it is crucial. As we found on the committee, 32% of emissions reductions up to 2035 rely on decisions by individuals and households, while 63% rely on the involvement of the public in some form or another. We need to tell the public what we are doing and why we are doing it. We know that the public support the transition to net zero. Even last week there was a new poll that found that across all the major parties there was a high amount of support for anything to do with the environment. But you cannot expect people to support something if they do not know the reasons or what it is going to mean for them. We are not shepherds herding sheep, but we need to explain why it is happening,

I have real faith that the public will largely—if not exclusively—support all the energy infrastructure that we need to decarbonise the grid, including pylons wherever they have to be put, and they will be up for getting EVs and charging them in the middle of the night at times when electricity is abundant. They will do all these things because if they can buy into the common good, then you are in a win-win situation. But we must engage them, and the continued absence of a public engagement strategy leaves lots of space for lots of very negative voices to chip away with misinformation about why we do not need to do this and how we are not really in a climate emergency. Explaining these changes and how they are going to come in is crucial to secure public consent and address all the concerns that both the public and too many sections of the media, sadly, have.

I also fully support the amendment in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Young of Old Scone, who made a wonderful introduction to it. I just add that with such little accountability, as the Bill stands, and as the Minister has said, we are not going to see a draft strategic priority statement before the Bill passes. It is important that there is some constraint around what the statement includes. The contents of this amendment are fully consistent with the objects in Clause 3 but correct a wrong area where GB Energy has the ability to invest in a wide range of “things or areas” but has no long-term security of knowing roughly what its strategic priorities will be.

I do not believe that this is too prescriptive. It seems to be wholly consistent with everything I have heard the Minister say in this House—and, indeed, the Secretary of State in the other place. I challenge the Minister to come up with something that he thinks GB Energy ought to have a role in, either now or in the future, that does not feasibly come under the list in this amendment.

It has to be said that my amendment is broad, so a few points apply to both it and the amendment from the noble Baroness, Lady Young. I will say a few words on emissions reductions. This has to be the overarching purpose, which, from conversations we have had with the Minister, I think is the case. But it is important that as a principle it is a publicly funded company which is not at present aligned to our emissions reduction targets. We should have no issue in including this in the Bill as its priority.

Everything to do with energy efficiency must be an area where GBE has a meaningful contribution by bringing in investment. The CCC has highlighted that we are really behind and that progress is slow. The warm homes plan—which I greatly welcome; indeed, I tabled an amendment to the last Energy Bill, now an Act, which included a warmer homes and business plan—aims to see 300,000 homes upgraded over the next year. I ask the Minister whether his department has yet produced a credible plan for the year after that. I am thinking particularly about the target to reach 600,000 heat pump installations by 2028.

These are large numbers. I remind noble Lords that we have 29 million homes in this country—more each year—which at present are likely to need retrofitting. As for security of the supply, I understand the Minister sees this as critical to what GB Energy will achieve. Indeed, his department’s 2030 clean power target, which this Bill helps to achieve, will mean more renewable energy. There should be no issue about including this as well. I also include community energy, which I can see has had a lot of airtime already. That is really important for bringing the public along on our journey, because if you can look out of your window and see a turbine and think, “That is powering and heating my home” or “The solar panels on my roof are feeding into the grid as well as cooking my dinner”, we will come up against a lot less Opposition to all renewable developments.

My Lords, I have a short but crucial Amendment in this group—Amendment 51A—which deals with the key issue of employment. It rather shocked me when I checked the wording of the Bill that the words “employment”, “skills” “training”, “retraining”, “upgrading” or even “fair transition” are not mentioned in it. At one of his briefing meetings, I asked my noble friend the Minister for a clear chart of the various bodies we are now envisaging having influence on energy policy—NESO, Ofgem and now Great British Energy and Great British Nuclear. None of them have as a central mission to provide the new and upskilled workforce that will be needed to deliver both the grid and the new forms of energy which will take us to clean energy by 2030 or 2035.

I also looked through the previous Act of the last government—the Energy Act 2023—which is 473 pages long. It provides much of the body of approach to energy policy which the new Government have largely adopted. From a rough-and-ready word check, I do not think that the words “employment”, “skills” and “new skills” appear in that either.

If we are to deliver a clean energy system, from generation to delivery, and energy efficiency in our homes, offices and buildings, as well as a transformation of our industry and transport, we will need a much more skilled, or differently skilled, workforce than the one we have at the moment. That requires somebody to take responsibility for that. None of the bodies has that as one of its central tasks. That needs to be remedied before this Bill disappears from this House.

We need to ensure that those currently employed in sectors of energy which will reduce in gas and oil have a high level of skills which will be relatively easily transformed into skills delivering the new clean energy—or those further down the line delivering home efficiency and other forms. We do not have that in the energy policy. It is mentioned in passing in one of the White Papers, but it is nowhere in proposed legislation. This amendment would at least put it in the statement of priorities required to be issued by NESO early in the transition. It will need following up; it will need more than that. It will need substantial Intervention, provision of retraining, apprenticeships and skills, and redefinition of jobs if we are to achieve the timescale and trajectory to net zero that we are envisaging.

This amendment, which is supported by the TUC, would put a marker down that we need to address this issue. Without a transformation and extension of the workforce, we will not deliver the full energy system in anything like the timescale currently envisaged. Can my noble friend the Minister ensure that the Government come back with some way of reflecting in this Bill that employment and the transformation of employment are an important priority, as is assigning responsibility for them to one of the many bodies now in this arena? It may not be regarded by many as central to this Bill, but it is central to the delivery of the outcome. I put down this simple amendment at this point, and I will return to it at a later stage.

My Lords, there are a number of interesting and thought-provoking amendments in this group. I am delighted to follow the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, in speaking to his. I will speak to my Amendment 55 and ask the Minister to respond on a number of issues when he winds up on this group.

I felt that this amendment was necessary to probe the thinking of the Government. Clause 5(7), on strategic priorities and plans, says:

“The duties to consult imposed by subsections (4) to (6) may be satisfied by consultation carried out before this Act comes into force”.

What is the timetable for those consultations? Can the Minister assure the Committee that they will be meaningful and last, as in the terms of my Amendment 55, for the usual 12 weeks—ideally not covering the summer or Christmas holidays, which is so often the case? Will they be meaningful and be over a 12-week period, and will they consult farmers, fishermen and local communities?

Why are those three groups important? With farmers, as the Minister knows because we debated this in Questions and earlier in Committee, the Government are minded to take over highly productive land—often grade 2 or 3 land—for solar farms. In preparing for today, I have been issued information from David Rogers, an emeritus professor of ecology at the Department of Zoology at the University of Oxford. He is not personally known to me, but he has some very good figures.

I think the Government are underestimating, as of today, the amount of agricultural land that will be taken out of useful production. Let us look at the five most affected constituencies. In Newark, it is a land take of 7.9%. In Rayleigh and Wickford—I declare that I represented Rayleigh many years ago in the European Parliament—4.9% would be taken out of production. Sleaford and North Hykeham will have a reduction of 4.62%. In Newport East, the figure will be 4.6%, and Bicester and Woodstock will see 3.96% out of production.

We have to have a very grown-up debate about what the land use framework will be. I do not think that it will be published before this Bill passes, but I pay tribute to the work of the noble Baroness, Lady Young, in this regard. She has put an inordinate amount of work into this. There will be other opportunities to discuss the impact on farming. I hope the Minister will give us an assurance today that farmers will be included in the consultation and say what form the consultation will take.

I turn now to fishers and the spatial squeeze they face. The National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations provided a briefing, at my request. It is the first to understand that fishers must share the sea, and if other industries expand so much that fishing is squeezed out of its traditional grounds, they obviously do not want to see the industry collapse. In the NFFO’s view, it is a mistake that when a new wind power station is built or protected areas are designated, the fishers who previously worked there are deemed simply to go and fish somewhere else; that is often not the case. Fish can be caught only in the places where they live and breed. They have been caught commercially in UK waters for centuries, and the areas where they feed, migrate and breed are well known, so expecting displaced fishing efforts to simply resume somewhere else entirely misses the point.

In the NFFO’s view, there is an absolute need for a strategic approach. The UK’s needs for food, energy, communication, transportation, waste disposal and recreation all intersect at sea, and the interests of fishers —and, in fact, of all users—can be met only with a strategic approach to using the marine space. How will the Government use the consultation to ensure that that is achieved, and that fishers’ voices will be heard when such a plan is developed, to ensure their future?

I turn to the work we did on the EU Environment Sub-Committee, chaired by the noble Lord, Lord Teverson. We took evidence on the environmental impacts of these developments, particularly offshore wind farms and their future replacements, on marine life and the future of the fishers. The NFFO views with increasing concern the environmental impacts of such vast industrial developments in the sea. It makes a plea that, as we go forward, any strategic overview will be consulted on. A ban on fishing is obviously not an option, in its view. We hope that fishing will not be automatically damaged through any development of the marine environment, but that common ground will be found, so to speak, in any consultations on developing strategic priorities and plans within the remit of Clause 5.

I turn finally to local communities. It is regrettable that in the past, planning permission has been granted separately for offshore and onshore wind farms, because then, a separate planning application takes place, particularly for offshore windfarms, wherever the energy reaches the shore. That poses all sorts of problems that really came to life during the General Election. Perhaps it is no surprise that we have a Green Member of Parliament for part of the Suffolk coast, because if you are going to have a large substation created separately from the original planning application for the offshore windfarm, that poses problems for the Government—whichever Government it happens to be.

Also, there is alarm that the Government are planning to take back control, so to speak, of planning decisions. Under the proposals the Government envisage, we are taking the decision away from local communities— I pay tribute to all who have served and who continue to serve as local council representatives—and giving it to the Secretary of State. That is wrong, because local communities should be asked to decide where these electricity substation superstructures will be placed and, just as woefully, where the overhead pylons will be placed. I still bear the scars, as the then newly elected Member for the Vale of York, from when we were deemed to take an additional, second overhead line of pylons. This does not go down well with local communities.

I hope the Minister will look kindly on the points I have made and listen to the voices of the farmers, fishermen and local communities as the Government proceed to develop their strategic priorities and plans.

My Lords, I begin by apologising that I did not take part at Second Reading and earlier parts of Committee—noble Lords had my noble friend Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb with them then. I am pleased to report that her hip operation on Friday went well, and she should be back soon after Christmas, but in the meantime, noble Lords get me stepping in on this Bill.

I want to speak on this group particularly, because I feel like we are having a bit of a déjà vu revisit over again revisit. It is worth reminding your Lordships of the last energy Bill this House debated, under the previous Government, which I was thinking of as the noble Baroness, Lady Boycott, was speaking. On that Bill, it was the community energy Amendment that we stuck out on until the absolute bitter end, through several cycles of ping-pong, so it is worth stressing to your Lordships how strongly community energy has won support previously. I very much hope that we will see that continue, or, better still, that the Government will hear the level of enthusiasm for community energy and act accordingly before or on Report.

Amendments 46 and 50 are well worth stressing. They would insert into the strategic priorities the objectives and plans having a direction, rather than the possibility that some of the earlier amendments covered. I also commend Amendment 51A, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Whitty. This, in shorthand, is the just transition amendment. Just transition has to be the foundation for communities who have often suffered a great deal from different government policies and who need to be treated fairly this time, just as all communities affected need to be treated fairly. That is the just transition we need.

Finally, I will say just a couple of sentences on community energy. This is the way in which we can deliver real prosperity to communities, enabling people to invest in their own renewable energy and to use it to get the profits. This is the way we can get enthusiastic consent for renewable energy schemes.

My Lords, I first apologise to the House. On the first day in Committee, I extolled the virtues of small modular reactors and said that Rolls-Royce were in a very good position to supply these, because I knew about what they had done on nuclear powered submarines. I then remembered afterwards that I am a shareholder of Rolls-Royce, although not a big enough one to bother the Registrar of Lords’ Interests. I hope that I can now apologise unequivocally to the House that I did not mention this earlier, and that noble Lords will forgive me for not having raised it at the time.

I will pick up the remarks of the noble Baroness, Lady Boycott, who said how popular net zero was. I would slightly caveat that, because at the end of the day, the whole concept of net zero is extremely popular until people have to start paying for it. It was certainly a big problem when it became apparent that people were going to have to pay £15,000 for a heat exchanger to replace their gas boilers. I know that this proposal has now been withdrawn, but that was just an example of the problems caused by careering very fast towards a very near date of net zero, because the Bills start rising all the more markedly.

One could argue that people are already paying some of the highest prices in the G7 for energy, and that is largely to do with our drive towards net zero, which has not produced cheaper energy now. We just have to hope that it does in the future, but there is no evidence of that actually happening, and I am not sure there is much in this Bill, either, to encourage one that we are going to see a great era of cheap energy.

It is quite interesting that the newspapers today said that we had reached 70% of energy being produced by renewable sources—wind, solar and so forth. What they did not mention was that the week earlier, we had gone through a period when the whole country was covered in cloud and there was no wind whatsoever, so we had a combination of neither solar panels nor wind turbines working. At that stage, 70% of our energy was coming from natural gas. It veers from one extreme to another. The problem with most forms of renewable energy is that they do not work all the time. If they did, it might be possible to get the price down to something slightly more reasonable. We need to be very wary.

The noble Lord, Lord Whitty, raised the problem of training enough people to carry out all the tasks that we are envisaging. There seem to be a number of things that are checking the process and involve the spending of money of one sort or another. I am far from sure that we are going to see all this forthcoming in the timescale to hit these very near targets for when we want to reach net zero in this country. We must be wary of being too optimistic that somehow GB Energy is going to solve all these problems. I do not think there is any evidence whatsoever that it will do so.

My Lords, I want to reassure the noble Lord, Lord Hamilton, that there is a form of renewable energy that can be on all the time, and that is geothermal. We are developing that quite rapidly in Cornwall and it has been proven worldwide. Recent reports have said that, if we were to roll it out, costs could reduce by something like 80%.

At one stage, I was involved in geothermal energy in Cornwall. We had a problem in that, when we pumped cold water down into very hot rocks, there were small earthquakes, which rather upset people locally.

There were a number of issues previously about that. Of course, geothermal originally required a certain degree of fracking, but that is no longer necessary. Since the development of United Downs, there have been no such earthquake tremors, all of which were very low indeed. But it is an issue for the public and one that needs to be recognised.

Coming back to what the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering, said, I want to thank her for bringing out some of the issues that we looked at in the sub-committee, and I congratulate her on being the champion of fishers that I know she is. On the issue of solar energy and the take of land, I do not think that we should in any way be questioning or pessimistic; indeed, solar should not be on high-grade agricultural land, but we should look at dual use of these areas. Even where there is solar on grade 3 or grade 4 agricultural land, it is not inevitable that this should be its only use. I would like to see the equivalent of a Section 106 agreement in the planning regime to say that there needs to be allied agricultural use on that land such as harvesting the grass, grazing or biodiversity objectives, which are absolutely possible.

However, I really wanted to intervene on community energy and re-echo what the noble Baroness, Lady Boycott, said. The great thing about community energy is not just the transition but the involvement of people in making that transition happen. It makes them part of the great process that we have to go through, and that is why it is essential that achieving this is part of Great British Energy’s remit.

My Lords, while the Committee considers the amendments in this group drawing attention to immediate overriding priority objectives, I would like to provide a wider context that includes consumers and demand-side aspects. Perhaps it could be summed up by adding to Amendment 46 “assist in the management of consumer demand”, but it would apply equally to many of the other amendments.

The Minister may recall that, in my Second Reading remarks, I drew attention to digital infrastructure and smart metering. Recently, the department has made statements on the Clean Power 2030 Action Plan, which builds on NESO’s plans, and on the capacity market to incentivise investment in demand-side response mechanisms. The amendment in the name of my noble friend Lady Young mentions improvements to energy efficiency and community ownership. In this regard, consumer-led flexibility can play a vital role in shifting their electricity use through smart technology such as smart-charging EVs and heat pumps.

The smart meter network is a critical national asset that is uniquely placed to enable the transition to a modern energy system. The DCC and Vodafone have signed a deal to bring 4G connectivity to Britain’s smart metering network beyond 2033, and Vodafone’s 4G has 99% coverage in the UK. The Government have committed to invest £6.6 billion to upgrade 5 million homes and cut Bills for families as part of their warm homes plan. The smart meter network can be used completely securely to identify energy-inefficient housing stock, as well as damp and insulation issues.

NESO’s plans include offering a demand flexibility service to help consumers save money by reducing their usage during peak times, thereby helping to balance the grid. This DFS, powered by smart meters, should be a key part to facilitate Amendment 46 and the Government’s plans. In the Government’s Clean Power 2030 Action Plan, will the DFS be brought forward and be applicable to all housing at all times of the year, and will it target support to retrofit energy-inefficient housing? Have any costings been considered by the Government and savings identified? That is the subject of the next group of amendments.

My Lords, I apologise. In my excitement to contribute in Committee, I forgot to apologise for not being able to come to previous sessions. I also forgot to declare that I am a director of Aldustria Ltd, a battery storage company, and that I chair the Cornwall & Isles of Scilly Local Nature Partnership, which is involved in biodiversity issues.

My Lords, I will speak to my Amendment 50 and signal my support, and that of our Benches, for Amendments 46, 46A, 49 and 51A.

My Amendment 50 seeks to add a statement to the strategic priorities, including a specific priority for the advancement and production of clean energy from schemes owned, or part-owned, by community organisations. This amendment seeks simply to have community energy added to the strategic priorities for Great British Energy. I apologise for talking about community energy again, as my Amendments 11 and 15 were about the objects of the Great British Energy company; these amendments work alongside those, and, combined, we want to see community energy in the Bill, both in the objects of the company and in the strategic priorities.

Labour has looked to Europe for its inspiration—for want of a better word—for Great British Energy. In Europe, community energy is being embedded in local power networks at an ever-increasing level. Europe is doing that because it knows that it is good for energy security, continuity of supply and local communities and that it brings local benefits. Here at home, we have seen the end of the feed-in tariff, but since that time there has been very little development, with still only 0.5% of our electricity being generated from community-based energy schemes. Reports have indicated that there is a possibility for that to grow exponentially up to some possible 8 gigawatts of local community energy by working with local energy plans, provided that the investment and policy are put in place to make that happen.

I thank Power for People, which has helped me with these amendments and provided your Lordships with briefings. It believes that up to 2.2 million homes could be powered by community energy, that it could save some 2.5 million tonnes of carbon dioxide and that it could help to create some 30,000 jobs in the UK.

Community energy is good not just for us but for our communities. Without going through all the arguments I made the other day, our position is that there is no Great British Energy without a Great British community energy. Our vision is for an end-to-end community energy scheme, so that our local communities can contact one person and get an end-to-end system to help them to get the investment, planning and ideas to turn their wishes to help contribute and be part of this transition into reality.

The point is that the big players will not do this; they are not operating in this field. This simply will not happen if GB Energy does not take it on and make it part of its core strategic priorities—it just will not happen. There is no other realistic option for this. This is good for us and for our communities, and we want to see communities benefitting from the energy infra- structure that they host or run. I apologise, but there will be a third bite of the cherry, as my Amendment 118A, in group 14, argues specifically for this point.

To get to the energy transition that they want, this Government need to take society and communities with them. We are all going on a transition—a journey. We will have to change how we travel and how we heat our homes, and many other aspects of our lives will change. The Government need to do this at a very rapid pace in a short time. It is important that the Government continue to work on their communication strategy and recognise the need to take people with them. Opinion polls have been mentioned, and they show that society supports this transition. However, a recent poll showed very clearly that, where our local communities can benefit from hosting or be compensated for energy infrastructure that impinges on their lives, there will be even greater levels of support for what the Government are doing. Without that level of support, there is a danger that the whole project could come off the rails. That is not something that we want to see happen. We believe that this transition is more important than any one Government or party. We are very keen to work collaboratively across the House to see that happen.

We recognise all the reassuring words that have been said, both in the other place and in this Chamber. I recognise and am genuinely grateful for the words of the Minister, who has spoken on this previously. However, my fundamental position has not changed. We want to see support for community energy in the Bill and in the strategic priorities for the purpose of GB Energy. Without that, there is no guarantee that this stuff will happen. I will continue to work with the Minister between now and Report. I hope that, across the Chamber, we can find a constructive way forward on that.

Briefly turning to some of the other amendments, I thank the noble Baronesses, Lady Young, Lady Hayman and Lady Boycott, for Amendment 46, which I welcome and support. I thank them for their support and for speaking up for community energy. I support Amendment 46A, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Boycott. The only slight issue I have is in relation to energy efficiency. We talked about this on the first day in Committee. I asked the Minister whether any consideration had been given to GB Energy taking on the warm homes plan. The Minister’s response was that it had not been considered. I think that maybe the energy efficiency bit of that amendment sits with the warm homes initiative. I still think it might be an idea for the Government to go away and explore that, but I support the amendment.

On Amendment 47, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Offord of Garvel, we recognise the need for a reduction in energy Bills. This is hugely important and it needs to happen quite quickly—something which is not in the amendment. However, I remind the Conservatives that the previous Government spent £39.3 billion between October 2022 and March 2023 subsidising household energy bill payers. That money was the direct result of the war in Ukraine causing havoc with the international energy markets. The result is that, although the money supported individuals through a difficult period, and it was good that it was paid, there were exactly zero long-term benefits for our energy security as a country. The reality is that if we do not transition our energy and get energy security, we could be in exactly that place again. The world continues to be unstable, and we need to free ourselves of our addiction to international gas markets. We fully support the Bill and what it is doing on this.

Finally, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, for tabling Amendment 51A. We also believe in a just transition and the need for that to happen alongside support for skills and jobs. One of our issues is that, despite the money invested in the Budget, we still see very low levels of predicted growth coming forward as a result of that investment. There is more for all of us to think about and do to make sure that the transition is a just one that creates green jobs and growth, and that we actually help people transition from the old industries—if I can call them that—to new green industries. This is the second industrial revolution; this stuff is not going away. All the jobs of the future will be green jobs, or we will not have jobs. We need to do more as a society to support that transition.

My Lords, I will speak briefly in strong support of Amendment 55, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh. Of course we want to consult widely with farmers, fishermen and communities; after all, these are the people who are most likely to be greatest affected by the generation of renewable energy in the countryside. However, that energy will be consumed in the cities, and so those people will not necessarily see the benefits. The harms could be damaged landscapes, the consumption of land, and the introduction of noise and general disruption from construction. We are looking at towering turbines and new pylons. In my own area, in Norfolk, Diss faces being surrounded—fenced in—on both sides by two huge lines of pylons as part of our drive to net zero. Acres of land are lost to solar, with the loss of jobs in the countryside and the debilitating hum of battery storage.

What can the Minister say about the extent to which the consultation will be coupled with reassurances and promises of compensation for those in parts that are most affected—possibly a reduction in electricity or energy Bills? It should not be just the generality of everyone’s electricity or energy bill but particularly those people who are most affected.

My Lords, I thank the noble Lords, Lord Whitty, Lord Hamilton, Lord Teverson, Lord Grantchester and Lord Fuller, the noble Earl, Lord Russell, and the noble Baronesses, Lady Young, Lady Boycott, Lady McIntosh and Lady Bennett, for their thoughtful contributions so far to this debate. This group has dealt with the critical subject of the strategic priorities of Great British Energy, and we must recognise the importance of this issue.

I begin with Amendment 46. As we discussed on the first day in Committee, the drafting of the Bill is concerningly lacking in detail. Unlike other Bills we have scrutinised in this House, the Great British Energy Bill lacks a clearly defined purpose and does not set out the company’s strategic priorities and plans. I am grateful that Amendment 46 looks to define the impacts of Great British Energy’s strategic priorities: the security of energy supply and the diversification of the ownership of energy facilities for the benefit of people and communities.

By explicitly stating that Great British Energy’s strategic priorities will assist in the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions and improve energy efficiency, we would ensure that the £8.3 billion of taxpayers’ money is used effectively for the Government’s stated purpose. Not only this but it is critical that Great British Energy looks to achieve a secure energy supply, as mentioned by the noble Earl, Lord Russell. We saw how that was disrupted with the war in Ukraine. This is not an issue that can go unaddressed when discussing a Bill that the Government claim is so consequential to our country’s energy production, supply and security.

In fact, Clause 3 explicitly states that

“Great British Energy’s objects are restricted to facilitating, encouraging and participating in … measures for ensuring the security of the supply of energy”.

However, the Bill makes no provision to ensure the security and future of our energy supply. We are concerned that there may be some tunnel vision here on renewable energy to achieve the Government’s unilateral, and perhaps overambitious, target of clean energy by 2030; that would inevitably compromise our energy security. I am grateful to the noble Baronesses for addressing this concern in their amendment.

Amendment 47 in my name requires the statement of strategic priorities and plans to include the reduction of household energy bills by £300 by 2030. Throughout the election campaign, the Government repeatedly promised that Great British Energy would cut household bills by an average of £300. A similar claim was made by at least 50 MPs, the Science Secretary and the Work and Pensions Secretary, and even the Chancellor said:

“Great British Energy, a publicly owned energy company, will cut energy bills by up to £300”.

In an interview in June, the Secretary of State himself claimed that Great British Energy would lead to a “mind-blowing” reduction in bills by 2030. As the noble Baroness, Lady Boycott, put it so eloquently, the public are hearing this message and must not be misled.

It is worrying that in the other place the Government voted against a Conservative amendment to make cutting energy bills, quoting the £300, a strategic priority for Great British Energy. By doing that, the Government voted against an amendment that would hold them to their word. They voted against ensuring delivery on their promise to cut energy bills for the British people. Why do this? If it is not £300, what is it? The public genuinely believe that Great British Energy, as a new energy company, will supply them with cheap electricity. Can the Minister give the Committee a cast-iron guarantee that GB Energy will cut energy bills? By how much will they be cut?

The pledge to cut household energy bills by up to £300 was not the only promise the Government made during their election campaign. They also promised that Great British Energy would create 650,000 jobs, yet this too was defeated from becoming a strategic object of Great British Energy and is absent from the Government’s Explanatory Notes on the Bill and the Great British Energy founding statement. Why is this? Amendment 48 in my name would ensure that the Government are held to their word and that the creation of 650,000 new jobs is included in the statement of strategic priorities.

These are not trivial matters: they are promises that are important to people. The Government have already put 200,000 jobs at risk with their plans to prematurely shut down North Sea oil and gas. The public are aware of this transition and they want a just transition, but they are hearing of an acceleration in offshore oil and gas to the detriment of jobs and no commitment given as to the new jobs that will replace them. The Secretary of State has made huge promises that greatly impact people’s energy bills, their businesses and their jobs. It is therefore critical that the Government are held accountable.

Amendment 49 in my name would introduce a specific strategic priority for Great British Energy to develop UK energy supply chains and require that an annual report is produced on the progress of meeting this strategic priority. It is essential that our transition to net zero does not increase our reliance on foreign states, as has been mentioned many times, and particularly not on hostile foreign states. I think we all want to see a “Made in Britain” transition, where our offshore wind turbines are constructed by British manufacturing companies and erected by British high-skilled workers, and deliver clean, cheap energy for British homes and businesses. With that in mind, my Amendment 49 would make domestic supply chains a strategic priority for Great British Energy. In this transition to net zero, we are presented with great opportunities for investment and for new jobs. As with employment, we must ensure that British people and domestic companies benefit from the increase in investment we hope to see in the coming years. Therefore, we must not simply outsource this transition; the transition will not be just if it benefits only Chinese companies.

I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, for tabling Amendment 55. It is critical that the Secretary of State must consult with various groups and local communities, including farmers and fishermen, when implementing a statement of priorities that will almost certainly have significant implications for them. I remind noble Lords of Amendments 26 and 110, to which I spoke on the first day in Committee. I raised the importance of local community consultation when the activities of Great British Energy might result in the erection of pylons.

I also draw the attention of noble Lords to Amendments 106 and 107, which will no doubt be addressed in future debate. I too have expressed my concern on the impact of Great British Energy’s functions on coastal communities and commercial fishing. I seek to ensure that an annual report is prepared and published to assess those potential impacts.

I turn to Amendment 50 in the name of the noble Earl, Lord Russell. I do not intend to be repetitive, but this too is a fundamental issue with the Bill—it lacks strategy. How can the Minister expect the Committee to have thorough debate when the details of the Bill are so vague? The Bill lacks substance and we need to clarify the strategic priorities. However, by addressing amendments such as Amendments 50, and Amendment 73 which will come later in the debate, we can begin to address some of these glaring omissions.

Amendment 50 calls for the inclusion of a statement of strategic priorities, which is vital for ensuring that Great British Energy operates with a clear sense of direction. This provision is crucial as it would offer transparency and accountability regarding how the company plans to spend £8.3 billion of taxpayers’ money. It is simply remarkable that the Government have failed to specify this in their Bill, especially considering the scale of public investment at stake. This amendment, much like Amendment 73, provides an important opportunity to shape the direction of this new body, ensuring that it serves the public good and not simply political interests.

What I appreciate most about Amendment 50 is its focus on the advancement of community energy. By explicitly stating that one of Great British Energy’s strategic priorities will be to support the development of community energy initiatives, we are ensuring that public funds are put to effective use in ways that benefit local communities. That is particularly important for rural areas where farmers and agricultural communities not only are central to food production but play a key role in the transition to a greener energy future.

Through empowering farmers to participate in community energy projects, we can create a sustainable, resilient energy system that works in harmony with the land, supports local economies and strengthens food security. Thus, Amendment 50 offers a vital opportunity to ensure that public funds benefit both the energy and agricultural sectors, driving a future in which farming communities are not left behind but are at the forefront of our green energy transformation. I commend these amendments to the Committee.

My Lords, this is a very interesting set of amendments, and I am grateful to all noble Lords who tabled amendments and have spoken in this debate. Clearly, as we said before, the overarching aim for the statement of strategic priorities is to ensure that Great British Energy operates in line with, and delivers on, the priorities set out by the Government. That is proper for the Government to do.

It is clearly important that we have a means through which to influence the strategic plans of Great British Energy. Equally, we want Great British Energy to have as much operational independence as possible within the parameters of Clauses 3 and 5. Inevitably, that makes me cautious about a number of the amendments proposed during this debate, which one way or another seek either to constrain the powers of GBE or to direct where it ought to focus its priorities and energies.

Amendment 46 tabled by my noble friend Lady Young proposes an addition to Clause 5 to ensure that Great British Energy will reduce greenhouse gas emissions, improve energy efficiency, ensure security of supply and include community ownership. As she said, we debated some of those matters on our first day in Committee. I agree with her about the vagaries of groupings, which after 27 years of membership of your Lordships’ House remain an eternal mystery to me, as we are enabled to repeat many of the debates already held. Indeed, the noble Earl, Lord Russell, has promised to come back to the very issue of community energy when we meet again on some distant future date in mid-January.

The Bill clearly provides a statutory basis for facilitating and encouraging the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions, improving energy efficiency and ensuring the security of supply of energy under the objects set out in Clause 3. Clearly the statement of strategic priorities must be consistent with these objects. I understand the point that the noble Lord, Lord Hamilton, made about prices; there was an Oral Question today on the impact these are having on UK businesses. He will know that, as I said then, the highest price for energy was achieved under his Government’s watch.

The noble Lord, Lord Offord, also spoke on that topic, and talked about security of supply. I think he very much reinforced what the noble Lord, Lord Hamilton, said when the latter raised the issue of the sun not shining and the wind not blowing, and the resulting reliance on gas. In our aim to move towards clean power by 2030 we envisage using renewables much more than currently. However, we also need nuclear as an essential baseload for our energy generation, and gas as the flexible energy generation which you can turn on and off. Currently gas is unabated, but with CCUS it will largely become abated. That is the way we see ourselves going forward, along with having long-term energy storage as set out in our clean power action plan.

On North Sea oil and gas—again, the noble Lord, Lord Offord, has raised this with me a number of times—I repeat that we are committed to a just transition, working with industry and the workers involved themselves to recognise the importance of the sector, which will operate for decades to come. We remain in close engagement with the industry on these matters. Like the noble Earl, Lord Russell, my essential response to these issues about energy price reductions and the need for long-term price stability is that reliance on international fossil fuels, and the markets that operate in the way they do, is simply not the way to solve them.

I turn to the specifics in Amendments 47 to 50 and 51A, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Offord, my noble friend Lord Whitty, and the noble Earl, Lord Russell, and supported by the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, and the noble Viscount, Lord Trenchard, although he did not speak to them. These amendments would require the statement of strategic priorities to include targets relating to consumer Bills, jobs and supply chains, and to include reference to community energy schemes.

On the general principle, we want Great British Energy to operate independently. The Bill is focused on making the minimum necessary provisions to support establishing the company—that is why the Bill is constructed in the way it is. Normally, Governments are accused of trying to micromanage the institutions they are responsible for, but here the Government are saying that GBE needs to have as much operational independence as it can within the constraints of Clauses 3 and 5. However, some noble Lords wish to constrain, in one way or another, what Great British Energy should do. We are resistant to that as a general matter of principle.

I am rather baffled by the Minister’s argument. The Government are going to publish a statement of strategic priorities, but if Great British Energy is going to be independent why does it need such a thing? Presumably the statement of strategic priorities will point the company in the right direction, but the implication of the Minister’s argument is that it is going to be incredibly thin. Is that correct?

I do not really know why the noble Lord is baffled by what I said. I thought I clearly said that we wish Great British Energy to have as much operational independence as possible, within the constraints of Clauses 3 and 5. At this stage, I cannot tell him what will be in the statement of strategic priorities, because it is being worked on, but it will have sufficient detail to make absolutely clear the Government’s priorities within the constraints I have suggested, while allowing Great British Energy the breadth and room to move in the way it thinks best.

On the issue of jobs, which my noble friend Lord Whitty was absolutely right to raise, all the organisations he mentioned have a role to play to ensure not just that we create the required jobs but that we can fill them. The issue is not so much lacking jobs for the future but enabling enough people to come forward to be given the right training and skills to fill them as effectively as possible. There is a clear message in the action plan we published last week:

“The wider transition to net zero is expected to support hundreds of thousands of jobs, with Clean Power 2030 playing a key part in stimulating a wealth of new jobs and economic opportunities across the country. These jobs will cross a range of skill levels and occupations, including technical engineers at levels 4-7 … along with electrical, welding, and mechanical trades at levels 2-7, and managerial roles including project and delivery managers at levels 4-7. Many of these occupations are already in high demand across other sectors”.

We have within the department the Office for Clean Energy Jobs, whose role is to co-ordinate action to develop a skilled workforce to support and develop our clean power mission.

I should mention the nuclear industry. I am at risk of repeating myself, but other noble Lords have enjoyed doing that during our deliberation. The Nuclear Skills Taskforce calculated that we need 40,000 extra people working in the nuclear sector—civil and defence— by 2030. That is in five years’ time. That goes up into the 2040s. There is a huge job to be done, and I believe it is my department’s role to work with industry and all the other organisations to spearhead that.

Does the noble Lord share my concern that the nuclear power station being built in Somerset is costing four times as much as an identical one in South Korea? Does he have any plans to bring the price down for future nuclear power stations?

That question really should be addressed to the noble Lord’s own front bench and their stewardship. I want to be fair to EDF: a lot of the reasons for the high cost related to starting afresh with new nuclear in this country and issues with designs, because the UK regulator wanted thousands of design changes. Covid did not help. Developing a supply chain and the skills also contributed. EDF has made considerable progress recently. It is sticking to its commitment that the first unit will start operating between 2029 and 2031.

Of course the noble Lord is right to raise the issue of cost. He will probably know that we will move to a final investment decision on Sizewell C over the next few months, but because it is an 80% above ground replication of Hinkley Point C, a lot of the things EDF learned from the whole process of construction will be transferred to Sizewell C. We are trying to bring in private sector investors to bring in commercial discipline, which, if we can get to FID, should ensure that Sizewell C will basically proceed on time and on budget, while learning all the lessons from Hinkley Point C.

I turn now to community energy, which I recognise this is of great importance to noble Lords. It is important in itself because of the contribution it can make and because it can leverage in community support for clean power. As noble Lords have said, this cannot be taken for granted, so I said on day 1 of Committee that we are reflecting on this and on the debate, as we will on today’s debate. Of course, Clause 3 already allows for community energy to be supported, and the local power plant—which is going to be one of the five key functions of GBE—will enable GBE already to support and champion local and community energy. I also take the point about the potential of developing up to 8 gigawatts of local and community energy projects.

Amendment 55, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, requires the Secretary of State to conduct a “meaningful consultation” with farmers, fishing communities and local communities before preparing a statement of strategic priorities. I say at once that I absolutely agree they are important stakeholders, and I agree with the noble Baroness about the important contribution they make to our country—particularly farming and fishing communities—and the need for these important stakeholders to be listened to on strategic issues.

I note the noble Baroness’s comments on local community involvement. She will know we are committed to planning reform, but I reiterate that that should not be at the expense of proper consultation. We will probably agree to disagree about the role of local government in this, because we believe that we have to make progress on these major national infrastructure projects, but not without proper consultation and, indeed, the environmental considerations that often go with them.

On community benefits, I agree with the point the noble Lord, Lord Fuller, made. The clean power action plan mentions community benefits, and we are seriously looking at this, because I very much take the point. It really relates to community energy power as well, in terms of trying to get more community support for what we seek to do. I accept that, for some communities, this is a big ask. I do not think we can run away from that. Equally, some pretty hard choices are going to have to be made regarding our energy infrastructure.

On the amendment moved by the noble Baroness, Lady Boycott, on a public engagement campaign, I agree that the creation of Great British Energy is a good opportunity for public engagement. I was very interested in what she had to say about public polling. On pylons, I welcome her optimism, which was not necessarily shared by all Members of your Lordships’ House. I agree about the need for proactive information and reiterate that I take the point about community benefits in relation to pylons, which we said we will be looking at.

I also noted the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, on land use aligned with solar. The Government are planning to publish a 12-week consultation on land use early in the new year. I am very interested in what he had to say about the potential use of land, even where there is, say, a solar power development. His geothermal enthusiasm is very well noted.

Meaningful public engagement will, we hope, increase community support for and involvement in the clean energy transition. The noble Baroness, Lady Boycott, also raised the issue of energy efficiency and warm home plans. She will know that we had a lot of stop- start settlements in previous Administrations. Therefore, we have provided an exceptional initial three-year settlement for home upgrades that demonstrates our intention to deliver the warm home plans as effectively as possible. We have committed an initial £3.4 billion over the next three years towards heat decarbonisation and household energy efficiency, with £1 billion to be spent next year. In addition, we have £3.4 billion of direct capital spend, and we are hoping to ensure continued further investment of up to £1.4 billion during the supplier obligation schemes. We do not think that this should be the focus of Great British Energy, but I assure the noble Baroness that we entirely understand the point she makes.

This has been an interesting debate. We think we have got the balance right between what should be in the legislation and what should be left to a proper government statement of strategic priorities, within the constraints set by Clause 3. I have no doubt that we will have further debates on this, but this has been a very good airing of some of these important issues.

May I have a reply, if possible, on having joined-up planning applications for offshore oilfields and substations or pylons, so there is one planning application for the whole project?

I am sorry, I should have responded. Clearly, the noble Baroness will know from the Clean Power 2030 Action Plan the Government’s intent with regard to planning generally. She will have seen what we said in it about seeking to reform the whole planning process. I will ensure that the point she makes is embraced within that. I see the force of her arguments.

I thank noble Lords who took part in this debate, including the noble Baroness, Lady Boycott, the noble Earl, Lord Russell, and my noble friend Lord Grantchester. The noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, is no doubt watching Parliamentlive.tv and cheering us on as we speak. I also thank the noble Lord, Lord Offord, for his party’s support for community energy and for the remarks about land use, which we will come to in Amendments 67, 73, 104 and 105. It highlights the need for a land use framework for England. I was kind of hoping that we would get it for Christmas, but it looks like it might be slightly later. We were supposed to get it last Christmas, as well.

I was delighted to hear that the Minister welcomes the further amendments on community energy, tabled by the noble Earl, Lord Russell, that will come up in our next session. It will be the third opportunity for the Minister to tell us that he is pondering. Perhaps I should change my wish for a land use framework this Christmas to a wish for some new arguments in favour of community energy before our next debate, because it is becoming slightly repetitive. On the other hand, a good case can bear repetition.

The Minister clearly understands the importance of community energy. I am not sure he quite understands the distinction I was making between the objectives of GBE—which are about what it can and, by implication, cannot do—and strategic priorities and plans, which are what, in the Government’s view, it must do and do now. That is a material difference. In order to inform these reflections between Committee and Report, and in view of the wide support around the Chamber for community energy issues being addressed in the Bill, will the Minister meet with some of us who have indicated that very wide support?

I would be happy to do so.

I thank the Minister for that. In the meantime, I will withdraw the Amendment, though perhaps not before dwelling briefly on the statement from the noble Baroness, Lady Boycott. She talked about looking out your window and seeing the local wind turbine in which you would have some skin in the game as a result of a community energy scheme, and so think kindly on it rather than it being the enemy. That reminded me of how the Labour Party used to feel about Arthur Scargill: “He may be a bastard, but he’s our bastard”. There may well be hope for this policy.

In begging leave to withdraw the amendment, I reserve the privilege to decide, when the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, is back in harness, whether this should return on Report. That will very much depend on what the Minister tells us about the outcome of his reflection between Committee and Report. I wish him a happy Christmas while he does that.

Amendment 46 withdrawn.

Amendments 46A to 50 not moved.