Part of the debate – in the House of Lords at 6:30 pm on 29 October 2024.
Lord Bruce of Bennachie
Liberal Democrat Lords Spokesperson (Scotland)
6:30,
29 October 2024
My Lords, I thank the Minister for the explanation of this instrument. She has made it clear that it is related to the consequences of the Grenfell disaster, which I think we all recognise is still with us in terms of the consequences and the resolutions still needed. We can understand, first, that we need to address it and, secondly, that the two Governments have discussed the ways of doing that. It is not possible simply to do the same thing in Scotland as in England because of different building standards and so forth. I understand that.
The order specifically mentions cladding, but the question arises: are there other forms of remediation that might be included? That is not specified anywhere. The explanation says that the proportion should be the same in principle both north and south of the border, but it appears the method of collection will be different. In England, it will be local authorities which collect and administer it, but in Scotland—I am afraid I am not surprised about this—they prefer to do these things centrally. Local government gets even less support from the Scottish Government than local authorities in England. I do not know whether there is any suggestion that a different way of doing it could lead to different impacts.
The two Governments say that they do not think it would adversely affect macroeconomic policy or impede the UK single market in housebuilding. Nevertheless, the joint consultation produced a rather mixed result. Not very many people or organisations responded— I admit that. Nevertheless, while eight were broadly supportive, six were not and two did not express an opinion.
There was one particular issue I would like the Minister to address. There is a power to impose a levy, in effect on builders, to provide funding to remedy the problem, particularly with cladding. What about a levy on builders who may have not been involved in any buildings affected by cladding? I am thinking of small and medium-sized builders. What is to stop the Scottish Government nevertheless putting a levy on them? If they do, it could presumably affect the market. By definition, big developers—some of which, as the Minister has said, have stepped up already—can probably absorb this and manage it, but small and medium-sized ones may be less able to. I want to highlight that concern because it is the one thing that was flagged up which struck a chord with me as a risk. Not only could it affect the profitability of those small builders but the price of building houses could be adversely affected if builders were subjected to a levy in spite of never being involved in building anything that required remediation.
If the Governments are satisfied that the UK single market will not be affected, what are the arrangements for ensuring that the levies raised are not significantly different north and south of the border? It is devolved, so presumably it is entirely a matter for the Scottish Government. However, if they became significantly different, it would have an impact on the UK single market. Do the Government have any indication of how they could intervene in that situation? I know the single market was very contentious but, given that we are praying it in aid, it is important to know that if it is distorted there will be some mechanism by which there can be redress—particularly if either England or Scotland is adversely affected by the application of this.
Other than that, on these Benches, we understand the principle behind this instrument, and we are happy to support it.
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