Part of National Security Bill - Committee (4th Day) – in the House of Lords at 3:30 pm on 16 January 2023.
Baroness Ludford
Liberal Democrat Lords Spokesperson (Exiting the European Union)
3:30,
16 January 2023
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. I also thank the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, for calling these amendments simple but important. I am grateful for his support.
On Amendment 77, I note the Minister’s assurance that he believes that the current drafting would achieve the aim of pursuing the possibility of prosecution, but obviously that incorporates not only a static but a dynamic possibility. I think the fear of the JCHR is that the wording, certainly in Clause 44(5), does not really imply any ongoing investigative mission, as it were. Saying “If we can prosecute, we will” has to mean that a certain re-evaluation takes place. But that is not all that Clause 44(5) says. It says that the chief officer of police must
“secure that the investigation of the individual’s conduct … is kept under review”.
It does not actually require any investigation, or any periodic investigation, so I am not really persuaded, despite the Minister’s reassurances, that that sense of a dynamic possibility of keeping the potential for prosecution under if not a permanent but certainly a periodic review is incorporated into the drafting of the Bill. We may come back to this at a later stage, but I am not entirely persuaded by the Minister.
On Amendment 76, I say simply that the fear, certainly within the Joint Committee on Human Rights and very much shared on these Benches, is that the Bill of Rights Bill, if pursued—and we wait with bated breath to hear any more news on that topic—could weaken the scrutiny and accountability of the Government under human rights obligations. So there is a fear around whether there is to be an ongoing sense of commitment to the possibility of moving from a PIM to a prosecution, which must be the objective of us all because PIMs, like TPIMs, however necessary they might be at a certain point, are far from ideal. The chance of prosecution is much more satisfactory from a legal and human rights point of view, but for the time being I am grateful to the Minister for his remarks and I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment 76 withdrawn.
Schedule 7 agreed.
Clauses 38 to 41 agreed.
Schedule 8 agreed.
Clauses 42 and 43 agreed.
Clause 44: Criminal investigations into foreign power threat activity
Amendments 77 to 79 not moved.
Clause 44 agreed.
Clauses 45 to 49 agreed.
Schedule 9 agreed.
Clauses 50 to 52 agreed.
Schedule 10 agreed.
Clause 53 agreed.
Clause 54: Reviews of operation of this Part
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