Baroness Hamwee:

Moved by Baroness Hamwee

176: Clause 78, page 81, line 24, at end insert—“(1A) The Secretary of State must consult with such persons as the Secretary of State considers appropriate before making regulations under this section.”Member’s explanatory statementThis amendment requires the Secretary of State to consult before making regulations under this section.

As the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, is not here, I wanted to say that her point about consultation was well made, but what I think is particularly important in this group is Amendment 194A, in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, which should not be left until goodness knows what time. I beg to move.

My Lords, I rise to speak to Amendment 194A in my name and those of my noble friend Lord Dubs and the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee. The bottom line is that, independently of each other, we have had various meetings with the Equality Commission and the Human Rights Commission in Northern Ireland, which are deeply concerned about the extent provisions in Clause 82—hence our amendment. It seeks to exclude Northern Ireland from the operation of Clauses 57, 58, 60, 61, 62 and 67 in order to ensure that there is no diminution of the rights of victims of trafficking in Northern Ireland and to avoid the potential breach of Article 2 of the protocol in this regard.

I urge the Minister and his colleagues in the Home Office to have discussions about this issue with the Executive Office in Belfast and both commissions because, first, certain provisions, which have been outlined by the noble Lord, Lord Morrow, underline that many of these issues are already devolved in Northern Ireland. Secondly, I urge them to do so because the Ireland/Northern Ireland protocol exists, and both those commissions have direct responsibility for ensuring that Article 2 of the protocol is adhered to and that there is no diminution of such rights—or such rights under the Belfast/Good Friday agreement.

What consideration was given to Article 2 of the protocol in the development of this legislation? I urge that Article 2 be considered and complied with throughout its implementation and the development of regulations and guidance. Depending on the answer that we receive this evening, we reserve the right to bring this amendment back on Report. I look forward to the Minister’s response on this issue, particularly about what consideration was given to Article 2 of the Ireland/Northern Ireland protocol in formulating and devising this legislation.

We indicated in the debate on the previous group our support for the need both for the Secretary of State to consult before making regulations as part of consolidation and for the Secretary of State’s powers to be properly defined. For the same reason, we support the aim of two of the amendments in this group on consolidation and transitional and consequential provisions.

I will be particularly interested to hear the Minister’s response to the amendment in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie of Downpatrick, which, as I understand it, reflects concerns raised by the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission and the Equality Commission for Northern Ireland. As I think the Government will be only too aware following today’s debates, we do not believe that these clauses should apply in any part of the UK. Nevertheless, we also want to ask what specific consideration was given to the impact of the changes provided for in these clauses in the light of the withdrawal agreement and Northern Ireland protocol as negotiated by this Government and raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie. These are important issues that, if not handled properly, could potentially cause difficulties and further problems.

I hope that the Minister will be able to give the Committee some clarity on how the relevant clauses in Part 5 of the Bill interact with devolved matters and existing devolved legislation in Northern Ireland on modern slavery and trafficking. As my noble friend Lord Coaker indicated, the inclusion of Part 5 in the Bill was a bit of a surprise to many people. Were the devolved Administrations, not least that in Northern Ireland, consulted on these provisions in advance of the Bill being introduced? I echo the concerns raised by the NIHRC and the Equality Commission that the Government’s actions on modern slavery, including the provisions in this Bill, might serve to diminish existing rights and protections for victims. Obviously, I hope that, in his response on behalf of the Government, the Minister will be able to put any concerns expressed during this debate to rest. We await the Government’s response with interest.

My Lords, the Bill will not reduce the rights and protections in relation to modern slavery and trafficking. Accordingly, there can be no diminution of rights under Article 2 of the protocol. The Bill complies with all our international commitments, so I do not think that this amendment is necessary—in fact, I think that it could do harm. It could exclude some, but not all, of the Bill’s modern slavery provisions from extending to Northern Ireland, which would only create disparities across the United Kingdom. In turn, this would create a potentially damaging lack of certainty for potential victims of modern slavery and decision-makers.

I am not in a position to answer the request from the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, for an account of the consultation between the bodies that she identified and those preparing the Bill but, if she wishes, I am prepared to undertake to correspond with her on that topic if that would be satisfactory at this stage.

That would be very satisfactory indeed. I think it might be helpful for us to have discussions with both commissions to further clarify the issues, after reading Hansard as well.

With that, I would simply invite the noble Baroness to withdraw her amendment at this stage.

My Lords, I know that the lead amendment is Amendment 176, and I did not really speak to it, but I am very glad to have heard that offer from the Minister. As I think I said earlier, I also had a meeting with the two commissions, and I was very keen that the points raised by the noble Baroness could be pursued. But I beg leave to withdraw Amendment 176.

Amendment 176 withdrawn.

Amendment 176A not moved.

Clause 78 agreed.