Amendment 32

Part of Overseas Operations (Service Personnel and Veterans) Bill - Committee (2nd Day) – in the House of Lords at 6:30 pm on 11 March 2021.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Baroness Goldie Baroness Goldie Lord in Waiting (HM Household) (Whip), The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence 6:30, 11 March 2021

My Lords, first, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Browne of Ladyton, for tabling this Amendment, which is fascinating and raises substantial issues. One only had to listen to the informed but very different contributions from the noble Lord himself, the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, and the noble Baroness, Lady Chakrabarti, then to a different perspective from the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Houghton of Richmond, and, finally, the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, to get a flavour of both the depth and the technical complexity of these issues.

There is no doubt that the increasing adoption of new and innovative technologies on the battlefield is changing how military operations are conducted. Gone are the three domains; we are now in the five domains. Military effects can now be delivered in cyberspace, and precision weapons systems can now be operated remotely from the UK and from third countries. I appreciate that the noble Lord, Lord Browne of Ladyton, is motivated by a genuine interest in these new technologies, how they influence military operations and the implications for our Armed Forces personnel involved in overseas operations—and that is an important question to ask.

However, I suggest to the noble Lord that it is not within the remit of the Bill to consider the effect that developing technologies might have on the future international and domestic legal frameworks of the battlefield. At this early stage I am perhaps going to give him a slightly disappointing response: I am not persuaded that it would be appropriate to insert a prescriptive provision for such matters into the Bill. I know he is slightly pessimistic about the fortunes of the Bill without that added dimension, but I am not sure that I share his pessimism. I assure your Lordships that emerging technologies are subject to a rigorous review process for compliance with the law of armed conflict, and we adjust our operating procedures to ensure that we stay within the boundaries of the law that applies at the time.

The noble Lords, Lord Browne and Lord Clement-Jones, had a wide range of complex questions covering many diverse issues on which—I am being quite frank—I do not have information, so I cannot respond to them from the Dispatch Box. However, I found their points compelling, and I offer to write to them.

We invest consistently in research and development through NATO. The UK is a world leader in innovation in areas of new capability like cyber and, if I may say so, in our response to new world threats such as climate change. Because we place NATO at the heart of our defence, we set interoperability at the core of our developments. We very much do this in tandem and in partnership.

Having said all that, I am aware of the expertise that the noble Lord, Lord Browne of Ladyton, has in these technologies and new domains, conjoined, importantly, with his legal background. I should very much welcome a meeting with him in order to be further briefed on how he sees their potential impact on Armed Forces personnel and the law of armed conflict, and to hear his thoughts on the nature of that important component of engagement with international institutions. That is an invitation I extend to him with sincerity and in good faith, and I very much hope, in light of that overture, that he is persuaded to withdraw his amendment.

Amendment

As a bill passes through Parliament, MPs and peers may suggest amendments - or changes - which they believe will improve the quality of the legislation.

Many hundreds of amendments are proposed by members to major bills as they pass through committee stage, report stage and third reading in both Houses of Parliament.

In the end only a handful of amendments will be incorporated into any bill.

The Speaker - or the chairman in the case of standing committees - has the power to select which amendments should be debated.

Dispatch Box

If you've ever seen inside the Commons, you'll notice a large table in the middle - upon this table is a box, known as the dispatch box. When members of the Cabinet or Shadow Cabinet address the house, they speak from the dispatch box. There is a dispatch box for the government and for the opposition. Ministers and Shadow Ministers speak to the house from these boxes.

amendment

As a bill passes through Parliament, MPs and peers may suggest amendments - or changes - which they believe will improve the quality of the legislation.

Many hundreds of amendments are proposed by members to major bills as they pass through committee stage, report stage and third reading in both Houses of Parliament.

In the end only a handful of amendments will be incorporated into any bill.

The Speaker - or the chairman in the case of standing committees - has the power to select which amendments should be debated.