Arrangement of Business

– in the House of Lords at 3:08 pm on 10 December 2018.

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Photo of Baroness Smith of Basildon Baroness Smith of Basildon Shadow Leader of the House of Lords, Shadow Spokesperson (Northern Ireland), Shadow Spokesperson (Cabinet Office) 3:08, 10 December 2018

My Lords, I think it was Harold Wilson who said:

“A week is a long time in politics”.

In the chaos that now passes for government, the Prime Minister will be making a Statement in the next few minutes in which she is expected to pull tomorrow’s votes in the House of Commons on her Brexit deal. Following that, the Leader of the House of Commons will make a further Statement in which she is expected to adjourn the remainder of the Commons debate. Given the gravity of the situation, we offered to adjourn this House for the Prime Minister’s Statement, and to mirror the process in the other place, but the Government Chief Whip has refused.

We may now be debating a withdrawal agreement and a political declaration that could already be dead in the water. If the Prime Minister returns to Parliament with amended agreements then your Lordships’ House will, as provided for in legislation, have a further debate and an opportunity for a further Motion on that deal but if she returns with the same arrangements—albeit unlikely—there is no legislative guarantee of a further debate. However, the Chief Whip has today agreed with me and my noble friend Lady Hayter that whatever the outcome of the further negotiations there will be an opportunity for a debate on a Motion in your Lordships’ House on the withdrawal agreement and the political declaration, for this House to express its view. That means that today your Lordships’ House has to continue as planned. Whatever happens in the other place, the Government are pressing the issue tonight on their take-note Motion. Perhaps the Lords Whips’ Office did not get the memo. In those circumstances, the Motion in my name stands, and I therefore plan later today to test the opinion of the House.

This House, your Lordships’ House, takes its responsibilities seriously. In the middle of chaotic and dysfunctional government, we will therefore continue to examine the wider issues of the deal and perhaps offer some advice on the way forward. To assist the House, we will be taking the Prime Minister’s Statement around 5.30 pm today, when some greater clarity may emerge, but that also means that our proceedings on the debate will take slightly longer.

Photo of Lord Newby Lord Newby Liberal Democrat Leader in the House of Lords

My Lords, what the Government are proposing is that while the Prime Minister is addressing the House of Commons withdrawing from the Brexit battlefield, and while the Leader of the House is making a Statement immediately thereafter, suspending debate on this issue, Members of your Lordships’ House—and, most importantly, Members of your Lordships’ House who have worked hard on speeches—are expected to sit in your Lordships’ House listening to those speeches, unable to go out to find out what is happening in the real world. At the end of this process, late in the evening, the Commons having stopped business hours before, Members of your Lordships’ House are expected to vote on Motions whose political reality has completely disappeared.

If the Government Chief Whip wishes to continue with this charade we will continue to make speeches and to vote. The situation may be that we have a Government in name only and that the country is a humiliation across the globe, but there is no need to bring your Lordships’ House into such a charade and such a surreal set of proceedings. Your Lordships’ House should now adjourn the debate.

Photo of Lord Taylor of Holbeach Lord Taylor of Holbeach Captain of the Honourable Corps of Gentlemen-at-Arms (HM Household) (Chief Whip, House of Lords), Deputy Chairman of Committees, Deputy Speaker (Lords)

My Lords, it is quite appropriate that we should continue and conclude our debate today. We have already had two days of spirited debate in which noble Lords have been contributing their bit to this general discussion. Many noble Lords have already asked questions of my noble friend Lord Callanan, and I am sure they want to hear the answers. Other noble Lords who also had their names down to speak have waited patiently for their turn to make a contribution to this debate. I do not see that it is any way justified—except to make a political point, which may lie behind the suggestion that we adjourn—that we should discontinue our debate. Each House is in charge of its own proceedings and today is no different.

Lastly, I think the noble Baroness the Leader of the Opposition made it clear that in earlier discussions I had with her I confirmed that should the Government decide as a result of other negotiations to come forward with any further proposals, whatever they are, we will find time to debate them fully and to have Motions tabled in respect of any further issues arising. In the meantime, the documents on which we based our debate lie before this House, and I suggest that the right and proper thing is that we should proceed with the debate.

Photo of Lord Adonis Lord Adonis Labour

My Lords, this is a complete farce. The Government are pulling the debate in the House of Commons on precisely the terms that we are supposed to be debating this afternoon. Is it not open to my noble friend the Leader of the Opposition to move the Adjournment of the House, which I think would be the appropriate step in the circumstances, rather than us continuing with a farce that, as the noble Lord, Lord Newby, said, actually prevents those of us speaking in the debate later on today from learning what Her Majesty’s Government’s policy actually is? Surely we should adjourn this debate, not continue it in these farcical circumstances.

Photo of Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Labour

I am confused. I understood from what the noble Lord, Lord Newby, said that he was about to move the adjournment; that is what it sounded like. As my noble friend Lord Adonis said, either he or my noble friend Lady Smith should be in a position to move the Adjournment of the House. It is entirely ridiculous that I am down to debate something that will no longer exist in a few hours’ time. I do not know how the Minister can do this.

Photo of Baroness Smith of Basildon Baroness Smith of Basildon Shadow Leader of the House of Lords, Shadow Spokesperson (Northern Ireland), Shadow Spokesperson (Cabinet Office)

My Lords, I think the House would agree that we want to hear repeated in your Lordships’ House the Statement that the Prime Minister will make later, so I would not adjourn the House at this point. However, I urge the Government to reconsider their position. It is quite farcical for us to debate an issue that the House of Commons does not want to debate when its Members are the ones who have the meaningful vote.

Photo of Lord Adonis Lord Adonis Labour

My Lords, then could we propose to adjourn until 5.30 pm?

Photo of Lord King of Bridgwater Lord King of Bridgwater Conservative

Is the situation then to be that those who have not yet had the chance to speak on the first two days and are due to speak today, and would like to give their advice to the Government as to what we think ought to happen in this somewhat fluid situation so that those speeches can be taken into account thereafter, cannot do so? I certainly support my noble friend the Captain of the Honourable Corps of Gentlemen-at-Arms. I want to hear what my noble friend Lord Howell, who was about to speak, has to say, and I have the privilege of being last on the list to speak from the Back Benches. If I have to wait until half way through the night to do so, your Lordships can see how much I want to do it.

Photo of Lord Newby Lord Newby Liberal Democrat Leader in the House of Lords

My Lords, we all want to hear the noble Lord, Lord Howell, but I point out to the noble Lord, Lord King, that many MPs who were hoping to make speeches today and tomorrow will now be denied because—this is the key issue—the basis of their speeches is being taken off the table, at least temporarily. I am afraid I have not been here long enough to know the procedure well enough but I would like to propose that the House adjourn during pleasure until 5.30 pm, when we can take the Prime Minister’s Statement.

Hear, hear!

Photo of Baroness Smith of Basildon Baroness Smith of Basildon Shadow Leader of the House of Lords, Shadow Spokesperson (Northern Ireland), Shadow Spokesperson (Cabinet Office)

My Lords, I hope the Chief Whip heard that. I think, from listening to the tone of the House, that the House wishes to hear the Prime Minister’s Statement before continuing. I propose to the noble Lord the Lord Speaker that we adjourn the House now until 5.30 pm, when we can hear the Statement, and then there can be discussions between the usual channels on how to proceed. The current position is unsustainable.

Photo of Lord Taylor of Holbeach Lord Taylor of Holbeach Captain of the Honourable Corps of Gentlemen-at-Arms (HM Household) (Chief Whip, House of Lords), Deputy Chairman of Committees, Deputy Speaker (Lords)

I am sorry, my Lords, I am not prepared to accept that. We have business before the House. We have people who have prepared speeches. As agreed by the usual channels, we are repeating a Statement at 5.30 pm so there will be every opportunity to speak. I am afraid I resist any suggestion that we adjourn during pleasure.

Motion

Moved by Baroness Smith of Basildon

That the House do adjourn during pleasure until 5.30 pm.

Ayes 201, Noes 163.

Division number 1 Arrangement of Business

Aye: 197 Members of the House of Lords

No: 161 Members of the House of Lords

Aye: A-Z by last name

Tellers

No: A-Z by last name

Tellers

Baroness Smith of Basildon’s Motion agreed.

Sitting suspended.

Photo of Lord Taylor of Holbeach Lord Taylor of Holbeach Captain of the Honourable Corps of Gentlemen-at-Arms (HM Household) (Chief Whip, House of Lords), Deputy Chairman of Committees, Deputy Speaker (Lords) 5:30, 10 December 2018

My Lords, I thought it would be helpful to the House if, before my noble friend repeats the Prime Minister’s Statement, I said a few words about the rest of today’s business.

The House will have seen the exchanges earlier today about the timings of today’s business, which led to a Division. Since that Division, I have received further strong representations from the Opposition parties that they do not want today’s scheduled debate to conclude.

My view has not changed since earlier this afternoon. I believe it would be in the best interests of those signed up to speak today—and of the whole House, which has not heard them—for us to conclude the debate today as advertised. However, I recognise the strength of the representations, and I do not believe that it is in the best interests of the House to have continued procedural Divisions.

I repeat the offer I made in good faith of providing more time for this House to consider the issue further when it returns to the Commons, and I apologise to those noble Lords who have been waiting patiently to make their contributions. We will adjourn the House at the conclusion of the repeat of the Prime Minister’s Statement.

Photo of Baroness Smith of Basildon Baroness Smith of Basildon Shadow Leader of the House of Lords, Shadow Spokesperson (Northern Ireland), Shadow Spokesperson (Cabinet Office)

I thank the noble Lord for his courtesy in making that announcement to the House. It is always difficult when the House votes on procedural matters, and his coming before the House today has been very helpful. I am sure that we will have the benefit of hearing the wisdom of those we are denied from hearing today at a later date, and we look forward to that.

House of Commons

The House of Commons is one of the houses of parliament. Here, elected MPs (elected by the "commons", i.e. the people) debate. In modern times, nearly all power resides in this house. In the commons are 650 MPs, as well as a speaker and three deputy speakers.

Prime Minister

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister_of_the_United_Kingdom

other place

The House of Lords. When used in the House of Lords, this phrase refers to the House of Commons.

Chief Whip

The government chief whip, whose official title is parliamentary secretary to the Treasury, is appointed by the prime minister and is responsible to him.

The chief whip has to maintain party discipline and to try to ensure that members of the party vote with the government in important debates.

Along with the other party whips he or she looks after the day-to-day management of the government's business in Parliament.

The chief whip is a member of the Cabinet.

It is customary for both the government and the opposition chief whips not to take part in parliamentary debates.

The chief whip's official residence is Number 12 Downing Street.

Minister

Ministers make up the Government and almost all are members of the House of Lords or the House of Commons. There are three main types of Minister. Departmental Ministers are in charge of Government Departments. The Government is divided into different Departments which have responsibilities for different areas. For example the Treasury is in charge of Government spending. Departmental Ministers in the Cabinet are generally called 'Secretary of State' but some have special titles such as Chancellor of the Exchequer. Ministers of State and Junior Ministers assist the ministers in charge of the department. They normally have responsibility for a particular area within the department and are sometimes given a title that reflects this - for example Minister of Transport.

Leader of the Opposition

The "Leader of the Opposition" is head of "Her Majesty's Official Opposition". This position is taken by the Leader of the party with the 2nd largest number of MPs in the Commons.

adjournment of the House

An adjournment is a break in the course of parliamentary business.

The House adjourns at the end of each day's business.

On a daily basis the House adjourns, or breaks, half an hour after the moving of the adjournment debate.

The House is also adjourned for several holiday periods during the session.

The more lengthy adjournments - often coinciding with the academic calendar - are known as recesses.

Speaker

The Speaker is an MP who has been elected to act as Chairman during debates in the House of Commons. He or she is responsible for ensuring that the rules laid down by the House for the carrying out of its business are observed. It is the Speaker who calls MPs to speak, and maintains order in the House. He or she acts as the House's representative in its relations with outside bodies and the other elements of Parliament such as the Lords and the Monarch. The Speaker is also responsible for protecting the interests of minorities in the House. He or she must ensure that the holders of an opinion, however unpopular, are allowed to put across their view without undue obstruction. It is also the Speaker who reprimands, on behalf of the House, an MP brought to the Bar of the House. In the case of disobedience the Speaker can 'name' an MP which results in their suspension from the House for a period. The Speaker must be impartial in all matters. He or she is elected by MPs in the House of Commons but then ceases to be involved in party politics. All sides in the House rely on the Speaker's disinterest. Even after retirement a former Speaker will not take part in political issues. Taking on the office means losing close contact with old colleagues and keeping apart from all groups and interests, even avoiding using the House of Commons dining rooms or bars. The Speaker continues as a Member of Parliament dealing with constituent's letters and problems. By tradition other candidates from the major parties do not contest the Speaker's seat at a General Election. The Speakership dates back to 1377 when Sir Thomas Hungerford was appointed to the role. The title Speaker comes from the fact that the Speaker was the official spokesman of the House of Commons to the Monarch. In the early years of the office, several Speakers suffered violent deaths when they presented unwelcome news to the King. Further information can be obtained from factsheet M2 on the UK Parliament website.

teller

A person involved in the counting of votes. Derived from the word 'tallier', meaning one who kept a tally.

Division

The House of Commons votes by dividing. Those voting Aye (yes) to any proposition walk through the division lobby to the right of the Speaker and those voting no through the lobby to the left. In each of the lobbies there are desks occupied by Clerks who tick Members' names off division lists as they pass through. Then at the exit doors the Members are counted by two Members acting as tellers. The Speaker calls for a vote by announcing "Clear the Lobbies". In the House of Lords "Clear the Bar" is called. Division Bells ring throughout the building and the police direct all Strangers to leave the vicinity of the Members’ Lobby. They also walk through the public rooms of the House shouting "division". MPs have eight minutes to get to the Division Lobby before the doors are closed. Members make their way to the Chamber, where Whips are on hand to remind the uncertain which way, if any, their party is voting. Meanwhile the Clerks who will take the names of those voting have taken their place at the high tables with the alphabetical lists of MPs' names on which ticks are made to record the vote. When the tellers are ready the counting process begins - the recording of names by the Clerk and the counting of heads by the tellers. When both lobbies have been counted and the figures entered on a card this is given to the Speaker who reads the figures and announces "So the Ayes [or Noes] have it". In the House of Lords the process is the same except that the Lobbies are called the Contents Lobby and the Not Contents Lobby. Unlike many other legislatures, the House of Commons and the House of Lords have not adopted a mechanical or electronic means of voting. This was considered in 1998 but rejected. Divisions rarely take less than ten minutes and those where most Members are voting usually take about fifteen. Further information can be obtained from factsheet P9 at the UK Parliament site.

opposition

The Opposition are the political parties in the House of Commons other than the largest or Government party. They are called the Opposition because they sit on the benches opposite the Government in the House of Commons Chamber. The largest of the Opposition parties is known as Her Majesty's Opposition. The role of the Official Opposition is to question and scrutinise the work of Government. The Opposition often votes against the Government. In a sense the Official Opposition is the "Government in waiting".