European Union (Withdrawal) Bill - Report (5th Day)

Part of the debate – in the House of Lords at 9:45 pm on 2 May 2018.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Lord Keen of Elie Lord Keen of Elie The Advocate-General for Scotland, Lords Spokesperson (Ministry of Justice) 9:45, 2 May 2018

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his amendments, which are pertinent given the different positions of the Scottish and Welsh Governments and the imminent timing of votes in their legislatures that will address consent.

The Government have been clear that they wish to make the positive case for consent for this Bill. We have not just talked about our commitment to making that case but have shown it. We have engaged in extensive discussions with the devolved Administrations and have now introduced the amendment to Clause 11 that we have just discussed at some length to try to meet the expectations of the devolved legislatures. I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, will accept that our commitment to the legislative consent process is reflected in the agreement that we struck with the Welsh Government last week.

This is the legislative consent process in action. We have put forward policy objectives; we have worked through the differences, and we have found an appropriate compromise. As a result, the Welsh Government have recommended that the National Assembly for Wales grant legislative consent to the Bill when it votes on this matter, I believe, on 15 May. The Welsh Government agree that our amendments now strike the right balance between providing legal certainty and maximising assurances to the devolved legislatures on how we will jointly manage the process of powers returning from the EU in otherwise devolved areas. Of course we are disappointed that we have not been able to reach the same agreement with the Scottish Government, but this, I suggest, is not for want of trying. I stress again that time remains for the Scottish Government to join this agreement, so that we can all demonstrate that we have done what we consider to be the responsible thing in this context.

There comes a point where this Parliament, the United Kingdom Parliament, must take action to protect the interests of the United Kingdom as a whole, and of each of its constituent nations. We have already discussed at length the implications of one part of the United Kingdom, representing just one nation, having a veto over legislation that is designed to protect and work across the United Kingdom as a whole. Regrettably, the position of the Scottish Government is essentially to impose such a veto or remove Clause 11 in its entirety from the Bill. I suggest that no Government who govern in the interests of the whole of the country could agree to such terms.

These amendments would mean that the United Kingdom Government would be restricted, but more importantly that the United Kingdom Parliament would have a veto placed on its ability to act in the interests of those it represents. That cannot be right for a sovereign Parliament. Indeed, it is not the purpose of the Sewel convention. It is not the purpose of the legislative consent process. It is worth us noting that Amendments 107 and 108 go further than just Clause 11. Their effect would make it an absolute legal requirement for legislative consent to be secured before any part of the Bill can come into force. I suggest that that cannot be right. It would place the authority of this Parliament to determine how we leave the European Union below that of the devolved legislatures. It would allow them the final say on matters that fall outside their respective jurisdictions and their respective competence.

In a sense, it reminds one of a very important contribution made by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay, in Committee, when he said that,

“powers which are effectively exercised within a single devolved area should be devolved immediately ... Powers the EU has which to be effective require to operate in more than one of the devolved areas should go to the UK Parliament”.—[Official Report, 26/3/18; col. 625.]

That is the very purpose of the proposed amendment to Clause 11. That is where we should be. The amendments proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, would give the devolved legislatures the final say over those powers that operate in more than one of the devolved legislatures, and therefore we cannot accept them. At the end of the day, the Bill has to provide legal and administrative certainty. I therefore urge the noble Lord to consider again the appropriateness of these amendments.