Royal Yacht - Question

– in the House of Lords at 3:22 pm on 26th October 2016.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Conservative 3:22 pm, 26th October 2016

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what consideration they are giving to commissioning a new Royal Yacht.

Photo of Earl Howe Earl Howe The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence, Deputy Leader of the House of Lords

My Lords, the Government have no requirement for a royal yacht and are therefore giving no consideration at the current time to the commissioning of one.

Photo of Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Conservative

My Lords, that is a very disappointing Answer. When I was Secretary of State, I hosted a dinner on the royal yacht in Toronto to which we invited the top industrialists, who flew thousands of miles to be there. I did not think they were coming to see me. Given that more than 100 Back- Bench Conservative MPs, the present Foreign Secretary and a former Foreign Secretary have all expressed support for a privately funded royal yacht, will my noble friend not at least agree to spend the money raised by the Daily Telegraph on a privately funded cost-benefit analysis? What possible objection could there be to the Government giving their full support to that?

Photo of Earl Howe Earl Howe The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence, Deputy Leader of the House of Lords

My Lords, I am sure that my noble friend underestimates his pulling power. If private enterprise, however defined, believed that there was a business case for a new royal yacht, we would of course look at it, but we would still be left with the question of who would pay for the vessel. Given that no government department has a need for a royal yacht, it is hard to see how any public funding could be justified.

Photo of Lord Anderson of Swansea Lord Anderson of Swansea Labour

My Lords, a number of Conservative Members in the other place have made the interesting suggestion that the costs of a new royal yacht should come out of the aid budget. Will the Minister reject that immediately?

Photo of Earl Howe Earl Howe The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence, Deputy Leader of the House of Lords

Yes, my Lords. No government funding has been proposed by any government department.

Photo of Lord Watts Lord Watts Labour

My Lords, do the Government agree that it would be totally wrong to adopt such a measure, given that the Royal Navy has no ships, and those that we have keep breaking down? Would that not give the wrong message to the country?

Photo of Earl Howe Earl Howe The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence, Deputy Leader of the House of Lords

My Lords, I do not accept the noble Lord’s premise. The Royal Navy has a fleet of ships that bears comparison with any in the world for cutting-edge technology, and we can be proud of that. However, to come back to the noble Lord’s central point, I believe that there are other ways of marketing the UK abroad.

Photo of The Countess of Mar The Countess of Mar Deputy Chairman of Committees, Deputy Speaker (Lords)

My Lords, has the noble Lord considered crowdfunding for this ship? There are a great many people interested in having a new “Britannia”, and they would all feel a bit of ownership, even if only of a rivet.

Photo of Earl Howe Earl Howe The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence, Deputy Leader of the House of Lords

My Lords, I do not want to give the impression that the Government’s mind is ever closed to good ideas. If a proposal comes forward for a royal yacht, from whatever quarter, and the business case is made, we will look at that constructively.

Photo of Lord Craig of Radley Lord Craig of Radley Crossbench

My Lords, in that case, would the Government be interested in manning the royal yacht and what objections would there be to not having the Royal Navy do it?

Photo of Earl Howe Earl Howe The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence, Deputy Leader of the House of Lords

My Lords, the Ministry of Defence is clear that it cannot commit funding to a royal yacht, so any consideration would need to take account of how the financial outlay of the Royal Navy in providing a ship’s company could be recovered. That is a difficult issue.

Photo of Lord Mawhinney Lord Mawhinney Conservative

My Lords, my noble friend said that we have no requirement for a ship. That may technically be correct, but it sends a somewhat negative message. Like my noble friend Lord Forsyth, I had the privilege of entertaining on the royal yacht European businessmen who were attracted to the prospect of doing business with this country as a consequence of being there. That this country is “open for business” is one of the very strong and very welcome stories that the Government are putting out. Should not the Government at least take a more open view on this given that no one is suggesting that any primary funding should come from the public purse?

Photo of Earl Howe Earl Howe The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence, Deputy Leader of the House of Lords

My Lords, I suggest to my noble friend that times have changed in the past 20 years. There is a variety of ways in which we can promote UK business around the world: we do it through members of the Royal Family, our many excellent embassies and high commissions, the Red Arrows, by using our Royal Navy warships as a backdrop for events and via the GREAT Britain campaign, which is very successful. We surely need to ask ourselves in that context whether, in the 21st century, a royal yacht would add significant value.

Photo of Baroness Smith of Newnham Baroness Smith of Newnham Liberal Democrat

My Lords, the proposal seems to be that if a royal yacht were to be commissioned, it would come from private funding. However, I note that the Question has gone to the noble Earl, Lord Howe, as Minister for Defence. I wonder whether it could be thrown back at the Department for International Trade, because it seems wholly inappropriate that something intended for trade promotion should take away from the resources of the Royal Navy.

Photo of Earl Howe Earl Howe The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence, Deputy Leader of the House of Lords

My Lords, we need to be clear that a new royal yacht would have to fly the White Ensign and would therefore have to be state owned and manned by Royal Navy personnel. I do not see a way out of the issue that the noble Baroness flags up.

Photo of Lord Touhig Lord Touhig Shadow Spokesperson (Defence)

My Lords, I am sure there are many who see merit in commissioning a new royal yacht—for my part, I do not care one way or the other. However, I do care about the morale of our Armed Forces. The latest attitude survey revealed that 61% of all ranks serving in the Royal Navy say morale is low. Is it any wonder? We have no aircraft carriers; our Type 45 destroyers are plagued by technical difficulties and spend much of the time in port; we have almost twice as many admirals as we have warships; we are selling “RFA Diligence”, our only at-sea repair vessel; and the Royal Navy is short of recruits. Given this state of affairs, will the Minister reassure the House that if in the future there is some change of view on the Government’s part on this matter, there will be no question of the defence budget being used to fund the yacht, as it is a rather peripheral matter to defence?

Photo of Earl Howe Earl Howe The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence, Deputy Leader of the House of Lords

I am sorry that the noble Lord feels it appropriate to talk down the armed services, but I can give him the assurance that he needs.

Photo of Lord Wallace of Saltaire Lord Wallace of Saltaire Liberal Democrat Lords Spokesperson (Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs)

My Lords, given that the Royal Navy is already short of manpower, it is quite likely that any royal yacht would have to be manned by people recruited from abroad. Does the Minister consider that we would do better to recruit them from within the European Union, or given that this is a more traditionally imperial matter, from Calcutta and Hong Kong?

Photo of Earl Howe Earl Howe The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence, Deputy Leader of the House of Lords

My Lords, there are strict criteria for personnel joining the Royal Navy and I am sure that the noble Lord knows what they are.