Northern Ireland (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill — Report

Part of the debate – in the House of Lords at 6:15 pm on 25 February 2014.

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Photo of Lord McAvoy Lord McAvoy Opposition Whip (Lords), Shadow Spokesperson (Northern Ireland), Shadow Spokesperson (Scotland) 6:15, 25 February 2014

My Lords, this has been a wide-ranging debate with speeches of quality. It further justifies the existence of this place, where such a measured debate can be held. The noble Lord, Lord Lexden, cited journalists as one of the main reasons why he was bringing this forward. I could think of many other occupations that have inspired more sympathy and understanding than journalists, but I take the point that he made. On a totally irrelevant point—and it is a good job that there is not a Lord Speaker to rule me out of order—I noticed that the noble Lord, Lord Lexden, invariably sits in a seat below the coat of arms of a former stadholder of Holland, better known as William III. I am sure it is entirely coincidental, but it many ways it is quite appropriate.

This is the second lengthy discussion we have had on this issue and I am sure I will be shot down in flames with my intervention, but there we are. I will repeat the point I made in Committee—that the extension of the Defamation Act is a devolved matter. I know that the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, made a powerful point about the nature and state of devolution as a principle, and it is a principle. Nevertheless, I place on record immediately that the Labour Opposition favour the introduction of the Act as quickly as possible and will seek assurances from the Minister as to how she intends to pursue that matter.

It is clear that the extension of the Defamation Act 2013 to Northern Ireland stands firmly in the competence of the Stormont Assembly. It is through the Assembly’s passing of a legislative consent Motion, not an Act of Parliament, that the Defamation Act 2013 will come into force in Northern Ireland. The noble Lord, Lord Lester of Herne Hill, said, if I am picking him up right—and, as a former forklift truck driver in a factory, I hesitate to cross legal swords with him—that devolution was a flawed principle. As a lay person, I do not understand the concept of attacking it on that basis. A free Parliament passed that law; a free Parliament passed devolution and a free Parliament has a right to make mistakes and will make mistakes, as the noble Lord, Lord King, knows well. The principle of devolution was passed by a free Parliament, and we in the Opposition recognise that and are very reluctant to get involved in laying down the law to a devolved Assembly. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope of Craighead, quite rightly mentioned the reaction in Scotland if London—in parentheses, England—tried to “dictate” to the Scottish Parliament on a devolved issue. We can have legal debates and highly principled debates here but, if we do not understand the nature of the political impact of the things that we try to do, that would be a flawed approach.

I state again clearly that we would push to see the Defamation Act 2013 extended to Northern Ireland. Those wishing to see the extension of the Act should be heartened and encouraged by the level of debate here because, quite rightly, no one has attacked the principle of the Defamation Act being applied to Northern Ireland. There will always be different laws in different parts of the United Kingdom, which is surely its strength, and devolution is part of that.

Certainly the Executive who or Assembly that completely ignored the reasoned, well made points made here in favour of pursuing this would be very foolish. It is absolutely right that the noble Lord, Lord Browne of Belmont, reminded us of devolution. It was useful to have that reminder, because it shows that local reaction to dictation from London is seen as dictation from England. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Carswell, also indicated the need for caution in going about these things. It is very important that that was local opinion being brought to bear on this debate.

Reference has been made, as it should be, to Mr Mike Nesbitt’s Private Member’s Bill. There are accusations that the consultation is being deliberately delayed. The message should go out from here: “We want to see you get on with it”. The consultation garnered over 200 responses—a large number—of which around 90% were positive. It was also mentioned that the current Northern Ireland Finance Minister, Mr Simon Hamilton, has also asked the Northern Ireland Law Commission to examine the issues surrounding defamation law within Northern Ireland. While some have expressed concerns over the timetabling, surely that shows that clear and active consideration is now being given to the extension of the 2013 Act.

Several noble Lords, including the noble Lord, Lord Bew, gave illustrations of why the introduction of the law in Northern Ireland would be good. The noble Lord, Lord Empey, confirmed that as well. If we have an influence—and I believe we do—it is that your Lordships’ House is a House of Lords that tries to influence opinion within the United Kingdom. The Assembly that and Executive who ignored that would be a very brave one, because discussion here does reflect public opinion in Northern Ireland. That also builds on the reference that the noble Lord, Lord Kilclooney, made to growing dissatisfaction and disillusionment with the Assembly. The message is clear: listen to the people and act in their interests.