Committee (5th Day)

Part of Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill – in the House of Lords at 6:15 pm on 15 December 2010.

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Photo of Lord Bach Lord Bach Shadow Spokesperson (Justice) 6:15, 15 December 2010

I can make this point fairly briefly, but it is a point of some significance and I should be grateful for the Minister's response. The amendment looks, rather unusually, at the interpretation clause of the Bill. Clause 7(1) says that,

'"the Minister' means the Lord President of the Council or the Secretary of State".

I have been lucky or unlucky enough to take a number of pieces of legislation through your Lordships' House, and to hear many others taken through it. Bills with interpretation clauses have, as a standard, defined "the Minister" as "the Secretary of State". That seems pretty sensible and uncontroversial and has the advantage of having been used traditionally. In this case, it would be whoever is Secretary of State for Justice at the relevant time, although, as I understand it, strictly speaking it could be any Secretary of State who would be entitled to take the orders through, which is why "Minister" appears in the Bill. But to say,

"the Lord President of the Council", in this Bill is, it seems to us at least, to personalise the position. I shall explain why.

The role of the Lord President of the Council, whoever that may be at a particular time, is set out on the website of the Privy Council and defined as follows. It says that that person:

"Presides at Privy Council meetings, including any Emergency Privy Councils ... Considers for approval a number of Statutory Orders concerning Health Care, Veterinary, and Scottish Higher Education matters ... As a member of the Privy Council Committee for the Affairs of Jersey and Guernsey, reviews Laws and Orders relating to the Islands, and makes recommendations to Her Majesty concerning their approval ... Deals with Ministerial correspondence and Parliamentary Questions relating to Privy Council Business, such as the appointment of High Sheriffs ... Determines cases, where the Lord President acts as University Visitor, in a private capacity".

None of these duties relates to any of the duties placed on a Minister in relation to the provisions of this Bill.

The real reason why page 5, line 27, reads as it does is to capture the current Deputy Prime Minister's responsibility for constitutional reform. He is the Lord President of the Council as we speak. This is the current Deputy Prime Minister, whose responsibilities regarding constitutional reform are also exercised by the current Lord President of the Council, by virtue of them currently being-of course-the same person. This alignment, however, is not in the job description of the Lord President of the Council, as I have attempted to explain to the Committee.

This inclusion is wrong. Simply and plainly, it is wrong to write this responsibility into law in the interests of one individual-the person who happens at present to hold that position. That individual, of course-the Deputy Prime Minister-will not be Lord President of the Council for ever; it is doubtful whether any successor would want the responsibility of signing an order into effect. That is not part of the responsibility-normally-of the Lord President of the Council.

If the Bill had said, "'The Minister' means, in this case, 'the right honourable Nick Clegg'", we would think that a bit odd. If the Bill remains as it is, it might as well have just done that. Why not do what is done in every other Bill that certainly I have been involved with, and just say that "the Minister" means "the Secretary of State"? I beg to move.