Report (1st Day) (Continued)

Part of Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning Bill – in the House of Lords at 6:45 pm on 2 November 2009.

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Photo of Lord Elton Lord Elton Conservative 6:45, 2 November 2009

My Lords, first, I endorse everything that the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, has said about those amendments in our joint names. Secondly, with due deference to the Companion,I support my noble friend Lord Baker, who expressed sentiments which I wish I could have expressed earlier. Thirdly, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for introducing clarification of what I called the Henry VIII clause. I am grateful for what she has done to ensure that this does not allow an Administration to overturn the provisions in the Bill where they affect young people in custody.

Amendment 55, in my name and that of the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, is designed to elicit from the Government the duty which the governor of an institution from which a young person is released is under. When a young person is incarcerated, how does the duty rest on the governor to see that the education, which the Bill provides in such a complicated and expensive way, is delivered? As my noble friend and the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, will know, there are often shortages of members of the Prison Officers' Association able or willing to move prisoners from one part of a prison to another. It is all very well having teachers, overhead projectors and white boards in one room in a young offender institution if all the inmates who are to benefit from it are elsewhere. Nowhere in the Bill have I seen a requirement that the governor and the host authority shall be able to discharge the functions as set out in the Bill. Nor do I see an explanation of how they shall be exempted from being in breach of the statute if they have been unable to do so because of responsibilities which lie with the Prison Service. Although the Minister may not much like the amendment, I hope she will like the opportunity to explain what will happen under those circumstances.

I reaffirm my enthusiasm for the proposals of the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, in Amendments 51 and 52, which I support and about which we shall have to take a view when the questions on them are put by the Lord Speaker. We cannot debate them again but my view is that it would be very good to have them in the Bill, unless the noble Baroness can produce something more effective than I expect.