Intergovernmental Meeting: Lisbon

Part of the debate – in the House of Lords at 4:17 pm on 22 October 2007.

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Photo of Baroness Ashton of Upholland Baroness Ashton of Upholland President of the Council, Privy Council Office, Leader of the House of Lords and Lord President of the Council (Privy Council Office) 4:17, 22 October 2007

My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Baroness and agree with her that it will be of great value to the public not only that we debate this treaty but that we ensure that we promote those discussions so that members of the public can hear, see and discuss this. I fear that at the moment many members of the public, like some Members of your Lordships' House, may be unaware of the implications of the treaty—and, unfortunately, the language of opt-in and opt-out does not necessarily invite ready understanding, even before we get to passerelle, qualified majority voting and so on.

I understand that the particular reference to the Commission to which the noble Baroness referred means that the Commission does not have a role in foreign and security policy at all. I think that that is the right reference, but I shall confirm that—and, of course, confirm if it is not the case.

As for future changes, what I think my right honourable friend is trying to say is that we have had a long time of debating institutional structure—appropriately so with 27 member states. Noble Lords will recall that I sat on the Justice and Home Affairs Council for nearly three years and watched the growth and saw the difficulty—which, in a sense, in having 27 nations, we created for ourselves—in trying to deliberate on matters. So it is important to think about how we do that and about whether, for example, with a constantly changing presidency every six months, things do not change just when you are getting used to doing it. There are real benefits and advantages, but my right honourable friend is saying that now we must concentrate on the issues. I think that he would agree with the noble Baroness that the issues that she indicated, of national security, climate change and so on, must be very high on the agenda and that we must ensure that the way in which the European Union works enables us to tackle them effectively.