Iraq: Withdrawal

– in the House of Lords at 11:30 am on 18th October 2007.

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Photo of Lord Dykes Lord Dykes Spokesperson in the Lords (Europe), Foreign & Commonwealth Affairs, Spokesperson in the Lords (Cap Reform), Environment, Food & Rural Affairs 11:30 am, 18th October 2007

asked Her Majesty's Government:

When they expect all United Kingdom military forces to leave Iraq, following the recent move to Basra airport.

Photo of Lord Drayson Lord Drayson Minister of State, Ministry of Defence, Minister of State, Department for Business, Enterprise & Regulatory Reform, Minister of State (Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform) (Business and Regulatory Reform), Minister of State (Ministry of Defence) (Defence Equipment and Support) (also Department of Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform)

My Lords, first, I am sure that the House will wish to join me in offering sincere condolences to the family and friends of Lance Corporal Sarah Holmes, who died on Sunday from injuries received serving on Operation TELIC.

The Prime Minister announced last week in another place that we expect to be able to reduce the number of British forces in southern Iraq to around 2,500 from spring 2008. Decisions on the next phase will be taken at that time. We will continue to make such decisions based on conditions, and in consultation with the Iraqi Government and our coalition partners, rather than timescales.

Photo of Lord Dykes Lord Dykes Spokesperson in the Lords (Europe), Foreign & Commonwealth Affairs, Spokesperson in the Lords (Cap Reform), Environment, Food & Rural Affairs

My Lords, we wish to be associated with the remarks of condolence from the Minister. Is it any wonder that Des Browne decided not to accompany the Prime Minister on his recent visit to Iraq? Can the Minister promise at long last that no further needless loss of life by British military personnel will be incurred, particularly in view of the vulnerable physical nature of Basra airport and the inadequate equipment there to defend our forces properly? Is it not now time to accelerate the action of withdrawal?

Photo of Lord Drayson Lord Drayson Minister of State, Ministry of Defence, Minister of State, Department for Business, Enterprise & Regulatory Reform, Minister of State (Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform) (Business and Regulatory Reform), Minister of State (Ministry of Defence) (Defence Equipment and Support) (also Department of Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform)

My Lords, I really do not accept the noble Lord's point relating to the Secretary of State for Defence; as I am sure the House is aware, the Prime Minister was accompanied on that visit by the Chief of the Defence Staff. With regard to the loss of life and the need to protect our troops as they carry out the very dangerous mission we ask of them in Iraq, we are doing absolutely everything we can to ensure that they have what they need to provide that protection. I am sure the House will accept that we have made real progress on the strategy which we set out several years ago for supporting Iraq on its path towards democratic government and for the security of the country to be handled by its own people. On the basis of that progress, we have been able to reduce the number of our troops. We expect that to continue, based on conditions as they develop.

Photo of Lord Astor of Hever Lord Astor of Hever Shadow Minister, Defence

My Lords, we also send our condolences to the family of Lance Corporal Sarah Holmes, mentioned by the Minister. Two days ago in the other place, my honourable friend the shadow Defence Secretary raised concerns that personnel serving in Kuwait on Operation TELIC are not entitled to the operational bonus. The Secretary of State said that this was not true, yet a Written Answer sent last December to the Member for the Forest of Dean stated:

"The specified qualifying locations for the operational allowance are the geographical boundaries of Iraq".—[Hansard, Commons, 12/12/06; col. 933W.]

Can the Minister clear up this confusion? Are all personnel serving in Kuwait and the Gulf entitled, like their American counterparts, to the operational bonus? If not, are Her Majesty's Government looking at ways in which this could be rectified?

Photo of Lord Drayson Lord Drayson Minister of State, Ministry of Defence, Minister of State, Department for Business, Enterprise & Regulatory Reform, Minister of State (Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform) (Business and Regulatory Reform), Minister of State (Ministry of Defence) (Defence Equipment and Support) (also Department of Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform)

My Lords, I should point out that we have not specified the location of the support troops that we have in the region down to a particular country, so I cannot comment on the location of troops in Kuwait or other places, but I shall certainly be able to look further into the noble Lord's point on the definition of the operational bonus. I will write to him and place a copy of the letter in the Library of the House.

Photo of Lord Craig of Radley Lord Craig of Radley Crossbench

My Lords, the noble Lord says that he is not able to comment about troops in Kuwait or elsewhere, but can he give the House an indication of the number of service men and women who are in that theatre of operations? We keep hearing about the numbers in Iraq, but it would be helpful to everyone to know how many troops are involved overall in that theatre.

Photo of Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Conservative

My Lords, can the Minister explain what the troops stationed at Basra airport are going to achieve?

Photo of Lord Lee of Trafford Lord Lee of Trafford Spokesperson in the Lords (Tourism), Culture, Media & Sport, Spokesperson in the Lords, Defence, Whip

My Lords, looking further ahead, can the Minister tell the House whether there are any plans to re-establish the Iraqi air force? Are any of its former planes still serviceable? What has happened to its former pilots? Are we likely to be involved in any training, in the UK or in Iraq?

Photo of Lord Drayson Lord Drayson Minister of State, Ministry of Defence, Minister of State, Department for Business, Enterprise & Regulatory Reform, Minister of State (Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform) (Business and Regulatory Reform), Minister of State (Ministry of Defence) (Defence Equipment and Support) (also Department of Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform)

My Lords, a small team from the United Kingdom contributes to a coalition effort to redevelop the Iraqi air force to enable it to carry out counter-insurgency operations. The Iraqi air force currently has about 1,200 personnel and operates 50 aircraft. We are seeing real progress in that former members of the Iraqi air force are now rejoining, the flying training centre has been re-established, capability is increasing and they are flying an average of about 180 sorties a week.

Photo of Lord Roberts of Conwy Lord Roberts of Conwy Conservative

My Lord, can the Minister give any indication of the incidence of violence in the Basra area and whether it has increased or decreased since our troops have been concentrated in Basra airport?

Photo of Lord Drayson Lord Drayson Minister of State, Ministry of Defence, Minister of State, Department for Business, Enterprise & Regulatory Reform, Minister of State (Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform) (Business and Regulatory Reform), Minister of State (Ministry of Defence) (Defence Equipment and Support) (also Department of Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform)

My Lords, the violence has decreased significantly. Of course we need to monitor the situation carefully, but the violence in Basra itself and in Iraq as a whole has decreased significantly from its peak last December. In figures, the levels of attack in September, for example, were about one-tenth what they were in the previous months.

Photo of Lord Hylton Lord Hylton Crossbench

My Lords, can the Minister say whether there has been progress in securing the co-operation of the neighbouring states? Is it not essential to have that for the future stability of Iraq?

Photo of Lord Drayson Lord Drayson Minister of State, Ministry of Defence, Minister of State, Department for Business, Enterprise & Regulatory Reform, Minister of State (Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform) (Business and Regulatory Reform), Minister of State (Ministry of Defence) (Defence Equipment and Support) (also Department of Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform)

My Lords, the noble Lord is right: the relationship between the nation-state of Iraq and its regional neighbours is fundamental. It is encouraging to see the way in which the Iraqi Government are establishing those relationships and the focus which they have on their relationships as a nation. In particular, the relationship between Iraq and Iran is fundamental. The UK Government are acting to encourage that relationship with, in particular, our forces making sure that the border between Iran and Iraq is properly policed.

Photo of Baroness Tonge Baroness Tonge Spokesperson in the Lords, Health

My Lords, further to the Minister's answer to the noble Lord on the Conservative Benches, can he explain exactly what our troops will be doing at Basra airport each day they are there?

Photo of Lord Drayson Lord Drayson Minister of State, Ministry of Defence, Minister of State, Department for Business, Enterprise & Regulatory Reform, Minister of State (Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform) (Business and Regulatory Reform), Minister of State (Ministry of Defence) (Defence Equipment and Support) (also Department of Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform)

My Lords, I shall try to be even clearer. Our troops are involved daily in training the Iraqi army in the operations which it must undertake to maintain security within the region. This training is conducted at all levels of the army, among the leadership and across the chain of command, and includes tactics, procedures and training on equipment. We can see from the Iraqi army's success—particularly in the 10th Division, which is now fully set up and has taken over responsibility—that this process works well. We should not underestimate the vital importance of our troops' work in supporting and training these forces. Most recently, the way in which they were able to handle incidents in the centre of Basra shows that the training works. We have been following this process for a number of years. We are able to withdraw troops because the Iraqi security forces are able to take over.

Photo of Earl Attlee Earl Attlee Conservative

My Lords, in view of the fact that the Iraqi armed forces have only an internal operating capability—we have just talked about the air force—who is responsible for securing the Iraqis' external security?

Photo of Lord Drayson Lord Drayson Minister of State, Ministry of Defence, Minister of State, Department for Business, Enterprise & Regulatory Reform, Minister of State (Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform) (Business and Regulatory Reform), Minister of State (Ministry of Defence) (Defence Equipment and Support) (also Department of Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform)

My Lords, responsibility for the Iraqis' security, both internal and external, will lie with the Iraqi Government themselves. Our strategy is to develop that capability, as I said, in the Iraqi air force, navy and army. We have undoubtedly made the most progress with the Iraqi army, but all three branches of Iraq's services need to be developed.

Photo of Lord Campbell-Savours Lord Campbell-Savours Labour

My Lords, does that mean that we will oppose any American troops being used to sort out the problem in northern Iraq in the event of Turkish intervention?

Photo of Lord Drayson Lord Drayson Minister of State, Ministry of Defence, Minister of State, Department for Business, Enterprise & Regulatory Reform, Minister of State (Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform) (Business and Regulatory Reform), Minister of State (Ministry of Defence) (Defence Equipment and Support) (also Department of Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform)

My Lords, we are not envisaging Turkish intervention in northern Iraq. We are aware, as is the international community, of the terrorist attacks that have been undertaken by certain elements in the north, the PKK in particular. We are supporting all efforts to stop such terrorist activity, and we recognise the calm measures that the Turkish Government have taken to date in response to those attacks.