My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, that once again we find ourselves in this House discussing the sad matter of women in the criminal justice system. A couple of months ago, there was an acutely depressing programme on BBC2 about the sick, damaged women sent to Styal prison in the north of England. The prison staff there had invented a new verb—to ligature. It means to try to hang yourself. The women in Styal were ligaturing at the rate of several every night. They also harmed themselves most violently. The film opened with a young woman cleaning up the blood of her latest cutting incident. The basin was filled with blood, as was the toilet bowl. That happens there several times every day.

The staff emerged from the film as undertrained, under-resourced and unsung heroes and heroines. It is good news, and something that should certainly come to the attention of this House, that the prison officer leading that team—keeping those women prisoners alive throughout the day and night—Linda Horsfield, has just been announced as the overall winner of the Prison Officer of the Year award. She is also the first woman ever to win this award. We would all wish to congratulate her, while thinking what a pity it is that she has to do what she does and that we have still not found a better way in this rich country of dealing with the most poverty-stricken and despairing women that our society produces.

Perhaps a recent case of a woman sent to prison encapsulates the sheer absurdity of our policies. Rosina Conner, a woman with seven children and heavily pregnant with her eighth child, was sent to prison for two weeks because her 14 year-old son missed a lot of school. She came out of prison saying:

"The Majority of the people on the wing I was on were heroin addicts, which is not really where I want to be".

Her partner, Darrell, said:

"I was shocked by the decision of a woman judge to send her to prison. That puts me in the situation of having to look after all the kids".

Every report written about women in prison says that they are the most vulnerable, disadvantaged and psychologically damaged members of a population that is already grossly disadvantaged. Every report written about women in prison also says that many of them should not be in prison—they need help, not punishment, as their crimes are not violent.

I suspect that the Minister will say that these women have committed serious offences and should be in prison. Indeed, some of them have—I do not deny that. But how many, I wonder, are in the category of having been charged and convicted of a serious offence, such as a threat to kill, when on analysis that turns out to be a suicidal woman saying, "Leave me alone or I'll kill you", a mentally ill woman threatening her doctor over the phone with the words, "If you don't give me the tablets, I'll come round to thump you", or a woman charged with arson because she set fire to herself and a nearby tree?

There were 4,409 women in prison last Friday and 4,501 a year ago, so we see a welcome, although small, reduction of 92. These 4,409 are part of a population of 77,711. They are scattered around England and Wales. Nothing different marks their path through the police station, the court, the report-writing, the sentencing process and the dispatch to prison, if that is the outcome, in a prison van. Only when they arrive at prison do they find themselves in a place designed for women, although even then they will find a system designed for men, with small modifications. I hope the Minister will tell me if I am wrong, but I think that nowhere in that process of arrest, charge, prosecution, social inquiry report-writing, sentencing and transport to prison will the accused and then convicted woman find herself being dealt with by someone specially trained to deal with the problems of women in trouble with the law—someone trained to recognise the special problems such women have and who has access to resources that could help them.

I understand that men, women and children are put together in a prison van, separated by metal partitions, often with no toilets or seatbelts. I quote from a letter to the Guardian from the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, and others, which states:

"It is not uncommon for women to arrive after 10 at night; hungry, frightened, and having wet themselves or been sick on the way".

If sentencing courts were very enthusiastic about finding an appropriate solution other than prison—a special centre for women, a real alternative that would address women's problems—how many could find one? Certainly the courts around Hereford and Worcester would find one—the Asha Centre. Where else would courts find one? Perhaps the Minister can advise me on that.

How do women, who account for six out of 100 people in the prison system, fare as a minority? Because of their minority status they face the problem of being held far from home. I understand that last December the number held more than 100 miles from home was an improvement on the previous year, but it was still 17 per cent, and 23 per cent were held between 50 and 100 miles away. We have heard how women's prisons are vulnerable to sudden takeovers for male prisoners at very short notice. That suggests that either the management assumes that no good relationships have been built up and that no good work is going on, or if those things have happened they do not care, or perhaps they care and make representations to Ministers which are ignored. I would be grateful to know if the appropriation last month of two women's prisons for men has altered the figures on distance from home.

The minority status of women also seems to push concerns about them down the agenda. In 2002, Anne Owers inspected Styal prison. She said that the way drug-using women were being dealt with was appalling and dangerous and that there should be a detoxification programme. In 2004, two years later, the detoxification programme was set up, after the sixth death of a drug-using woman. The problem cannot be shortage of money. In 2004, £16 million was found to build new prison units for children—for girls under 18. The Minister is a very distinguished lawyer. I know the Government are committed to anti-discrimination and to equality for women. I would appreciate her honest assessment on how far many aspects of the way in which women are treated in the criminal justice system represents unlawful discrimination, and how much will have to change for us to comply with our obligations.