Health Bill

Part of the debate – in the House of Lords at 3:30 pm on 19 June 2006.

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Photo of Lord Faulkner of Worcester Lord Faulkner of Worcester Labour 3:30, 19 June 2006

My Lords, when I seek advice on medication, I tend to ask my doctor. When it comes to other health matters, I prefer to listen to medical experts rather than to people who regard themselves as experts in other fields. The Economic Affairs Select Committee is made up of individuals of extraordinary quality and huge ability, but if one looks at what they have done in their lives, one sees that not one of them has any medical experience whatever.

Medical experts are united on passive smoking. There is not one reputable medical authority opposed to what the Government seek with this Bill. Their Scientific Committee on Tobacco and Health describes second-hand smoke as,

"a controllable and preventable form of indoor air pollution . . . a substantial health hazard", and says:

"It is evident that no infant, child or adult should be exposed to secondhand smoke".

Similar points were made in a letter to the Times, which was published last Thursday, signed by the chairman of the council of the BMA, the chairman of the Academy of Medical Royal Colleges and the general secretary of the Royal College of Nursing. They said:

"To the medical and nursing professions the evidence is clear, overwhelming and unequivocal. There is no safe level of exposure".

The approach proposed in this amendment is not novel, although, interestingly, it was rejected by the Labour and Liberal Democrat parties at the last election. Both parties were committed to a smoke-free policy wherever food was served, whether in a pub or a restaurant. The noble Lords, Lord Russell-Johnston and Lord Monson, are correct that the policy has been followed in a number of countries, but, inconveniently for them, in most cases where that approach has been followed, it has either been abandoned or found to be unworkable. The report published by the Health Select Committee in another place reported at paragraph 36 that,

"the law in Italy provides for separate smoking areas with illuminated signs, automatic doors and an approved ventilation system. However, because of practical difficulties in creating such an environment in many premises, it is estimated that 97% of outlets in Italy have in fact introduced a complete ban on smoking".

In Scandinavia, Norway is an interesting example. I had the good fortune to visit Oslo with the All-Party Parliamentary British-Norwegian Group during the Whitsun Recess. We met Dr Bjrn-Inge Larsen, the director-general for health and social affairs in the Norwegian Government; he is the equivalent of our Chief Medical Officer. He has since written to me and is happy for me to quote from his letter:

"Prior to 1 June 2004, Norwegian legislation on smoking in bars and restaurants allowed smoking in 50% of the premises. An evaluation study from 1999 showed that the smoking zones were not a satisfactory arrangement. Results from this study showed that the enforcement of the law was not satisfactory. In at least 30% of Norwegian communities, there was no supervision at all. In the remaining communities supervision was random and often superficial. Approximately 50% of the inspectors said it was impossible to follow the regulations concerning zones in practice. Few of them were satisfied with the current regulations, and a majority wanted stronger restrictions. Among guests, a majority—two-thirds—reported that they preferred staying in smoke-free areas. Evaluations after the ban came into force, show that the hospitality industry itself reports that compliance after the total ban is 90% as opposed to only 51% when the legislation required smoking zones".

The noble Baroness, Lady O'Cathain, has said exactly what I wanted to say on ventilation, so I will not tire your Lordships by repeating it, although it is interesting that again the Select Committee dealt with the matter very convincingly in the other place.

The noble Lord's amendment proposes that staff would not be forced to work in smoking rooms. How workable is that? Just imagine what it would mean. Let us suppose that it has been a long, tiring day working in the pub. The smoking room is full of dirty glasses and perhaps the remains of uneaten food. The ashtrays are full. The atmosphere is disgusting. Then the boss asks the 19 year-old waitress from Poland to go in and clear up. She says, "I am sorry. I am taking advantage of the protection given to me by Lord Russell-Johnston's amendment and I refuse to do it". It is not a conceivably sensible or workable proposition.

Finally, paragraph 49 of the Select Committee report says:

"The argument that workers can choose where to work and therefore can decide whether to take on health risks goes against the grain of most legislation to protect workers. The same point could have been made about child chimney sweeps".