Government of Wales Bill

Part of the debate – in the House of Lords at 5:00 pm on 19 April 2006.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Lord Livsey of Talgarth Lord Livsey of Talgarth Spokesperson in the Lords, Welsh Affairs, Spokesperson in the Lords (Agriculture), Environment, Food & Rural Affairs 5:00, 19 April 2006

I have listened to the Minister and to the predictability of some of the things that he said. Before replying directly to what he said, I will say that we have had a useful, wide-ranging debate where a lot of issues have been examined in detail. I thank those Members who supported some of the principles of the single transferable vote. I recognise that devolution is a process, and we are attempting, by putting forward the amendments, to point in the direction of a more proportional system of representation in the Welsh Assembly. I well understand the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Roberts of Conwy, about the breaking of the link with the constituency. That is a big question which needs a lot of consideration. There are arguments about proportionality versus the constituency link.

I was very pleased to hear the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Richard, on the report of the Richard commission. After a detailed examination of the situation he said that the committee system could not work with 60; and that it required 80 Members to do the job. I do not come from where the Minister was coming from. I want to see an efficient and effective Assembly which has the competence and the time to do the job. He spoke about professional politicians. Would he be more satisfied with amateur ones? Perhaps part of the problem is that we do not have enough professional politicians to do the job required in Wales. I believe that the STV system would provide a fairer and more competent Assembly able to do the job in the time required.

I agree with the Minister in one respect. The time could be extended. I have no argument with him on that. None the less, with the increased responsibilities placed upon the Assembly, even as the Bill now stands, it is not a satisfactory state of affairs that in some cases there will be only six Members per committee. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Elystan-Morgan, and others for their comments on STV. We on these Benches are not "latching on" to the report of the Richard commission, as the Minister put it. We are considering it as objectively as we can. The Electoral Commission studied it in great depth and agreed with the report's conclusions that the single transferable vote was the best system for Wales. One could boil this down to the tabloid argument: that we have too many politicians already; we do not need any more. Having considered the views in detail, the Electoral Commission has come out in agreement with the report of the Richard commission in favour of STV. I believe that I can rest my case on those arguments with confidence and, as regards the future, with optimism. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.