National Lottery Bill

Part of the debate – in the House of Lords at 6:25 pm on 6 February 2006.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of The Bishop of Southwell and Nottingham The Bishop of Southwell and Nottingham Bishop 6:25, 6 February 2006

My Lords, I, too, thank the Minister for his helpful information pack which many of us received and which will undoubtedly be useful in the forthcoming progress of the Bill. I speak in this debate on behalf of historic places of worship. Although a bishop in the Church of England, I speak for a wider constituency base today in my role as chairman of the Church's main committee which represents 40 different Christian denominations and part of the Jewish community as well.

I need to make two preliminary comments. First, in supporting the use of National Lottery funds for work on church buildings, I am in no way wishing to condone gambling. As the noble Lord, Lord Shutt, mentioned a moment ago, there was considerable heart-searching within churches when National Lottery funding began, and some congregations and denominations do not want to touch any funds generated from that source. Others—such as the General Synod of the Church of England and, more recently, the Methodist Church and the United Reform Church—have taken the view that if congregations wish to apply for funding to help support the buildings which they maintain and which benefit the wider community, they should do so.

Secondly, however, the churches have generally been clear that is for them, not the National Lottery, to fund the running of their services, worship and ministry mission. The lottery has been equally clear that it is not its role to support worship.

We all recognise that the historic church buildings of this country are a key part of our environment and heritage. They matter to people, be they worshippers or not. Surveys in both 2003 and 2005 have confirmed that 86 per cent of the population go into a church building each year. I will be the first to admit that not all, by any means, do so for religious services, but for a whole range of other reasons. These percentages are high whether among Christians, those of other faiths or those professing no faith at all. Some 72 per cent agreed with the statement that,

"places of worship provide valuable social and community facilities".

Some 69 per cent agreed with the statement that,

"places of worship should be more accessible to the local community".

The National Lottery has, along with English Heritage, helped considerably with repairs and new facilities for church buildings, as well as for schemes to help in interpretation and the encouragement of visitors. Over its first 10 years, it contributed in total some £300 million to church buildings and cathedrals. This money, and money to other historic buildings and sites, has helped to transform some communities, empower the people within them, and give them much more heart. Yet the needs have not gone away. Figures from Church of England parishes in 2003 indicate that they have outstanding repair costs of £373 million, on the basis of their last quinquennial inspection—by law, each Church of England church must be inspected every five years by a qualified architect or chartered surveyor. This figure does not include churches of other denominations, or places of worship of other faiths.

This figure needs to be set against the £25 million per annum which has typically come from English Heritage and HLF together for the repair scheme for high-level works to keep buildings wind and watertight. The 2005 repair needs from two Church of England dioceses alone, Norwich and Chelmsford, would totally absorb the available English Heritage and HLF moneys. The simple fact is that our historic environment needs more money, not less. Major capital projects need time to come to fruition; to assemble all the funding, to clear specifications, to put planning permissions in place, and to deal with tendering. A building project does not gain an offer today and start on site tomorrow.

This is why I and many colleagues in the churches and the heritage sector are concerned about certain provisions in this Bill. Clause 9 alters the arrangement whereby lottery distributors accumulate interest on their balances. At present, as I understand it, they gain interest on the balances they have set aside—like any prudent individual. Under the Bill, they will gain only a proportion of the interest. They will receive 16.5 per cent of the total lottery proceeds in the first place. They will equally receive 16.5 per cent of the total interest which builds up on all lottery distributors' balances, even if their balances are greater than those of other distributors.

In one sense, that all sounds fair and equitable, but it has practical implications. It would reduce the amount of money available to the HLF. It means that, where it has prudently set aside money to meet its commitments when a major project gets underway, its interest is effectively capped. That means that there are fewer resources than it may otherwise have anticipated; and, in turn, that it has less money to deal with the pressing needs of our historic environment.

I am quite clear that the HLF is not holding on to those balances to gain more interest. It simply wants to ensure that where money has been provided, it will be available to the applicant when ready to draw it down—to avoid the scenario whereby it may not be available because it has been spent on another project. Really, it needs a bigger slice of the cake.

The other concern is with Clause 8, which will enable the Secretary of State to take away a distributor's balances and give them to another distributor. The Bill now makes clear that the funds would have to be used for the same good cause—that means that any funds taken from the Heritage Lottery Fund would still have to be spent on heritage projects. I also appreciate that the power would be used only after an affirmative resolution in both Houses and consultation with the other distributor.

Even with all those safeguards, transferring balances to another distributor will involve discontinuity, uncertainty and administrative confusion for applicants, who may not know where to turn to resolve their application. At the very least, they are likely to experience delay while any transfer takes place. At worst, they may experience major disruption. What will not be safeguarded, I fear, is the very heritage that the lottery is intended to help.

I suggest that if those draconian powers are to remain in the Bill, the Secretary of State at least considers ways to take into account the views of the major customers of a lottery distributor before such an order is made. I encourage the department to consider a provision for consulting those who will be most affected by such transfer—representative organisations in the heritage world and representative Church bodies. Views from such organisations would give the department a feel for whether such a transfer of resources would benefit or harm the good cause that it is seeking to promote.

I hope that the Secretary of State will be prepared to consider those points sympathetically—both here and, in due course, in Committee.