Terrorism Bill

Part of the debate – in the House of Lords at 3:45 pm on 7 December 2005.

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Photo of Baroness Scotland of Asthal Baroness Scotland of Asthal Minister of State (Criminal Justice and Offender Management), Home Office, Minister of State (Home Office) (Criminal Justice and Offender Management) 3:45, 7 December 2005

It means that if he merely suspects or believes that something might be going on, that is not enough. He has to have clear knowledge and clear belief that the training was for terrorist purposes. That is why I say that Amendment No. 79 is an important definition because it does not catch people who are worried, or who suspect, that someone might be using this inappropriately. We think that is a clear distinction.

If you were giving flying lessons, for instance, and your pupils wanted to learn only how to set off but never how to land, that might make you suspicious as to what they were about, and you might think that was something you should report—but you are not committing a criminal offence if you do not do so, because you merely have a suspicion. It is knowledge that will be caught by this offence, and nothing else. We absolutely understand the anxieties of academics, librarians and others. It is right to say that the great majority of our academics and librarians will never have such knowledge or intent in terms of providing, but those who do—