Constitutional Reform Bill [HL]

Part of the debate – in the House of Lords at 2:30 pm on 15 March 2005.

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Photo of Lord Ackner Lord Ackner Crossbench 2:30, 15 March 2005

My Lords, if the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, is saying that the Lord Chancellor should not be a lawyer, I can deal with that very simply.

The noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay of Clashfern, who has considerable public relations skill, went around the circuits visiting the court staff in order to understand better what, if anything, was troubling them and to show that they were cared for. This was very successful. It needs doing more nowadays, because the Treasury has acted with such meanness that there is constant change of staff in the county courts and an inadequacy of assistance and training.

It is difficult to understand how a non-lawyer could possibly cope with that situation. It is being overlooked by the Government, and by the noble and learned Lord the Lord Chancellor in particular, that one of the remaining obligations—and it is an enormous obligation—is running the court system. How can a person be expected to run a court system competently if he is not a lawyer with considerable experience?

I accept—this is almost my conclusion—that if the noble and learned Lord the Lord Chancellor does not do as the Prime Minister wishes, he can be fired there and then. It is, however, an expensive business to fire a Lord Chancellor, because they acquire a right to their not inconsiderable pensions immediately on appointment. There would be concern, therefore, that someone had been fired. If the Prime Minister decided that he would appoint someone of a lesser quality—someone who could be clearly relied upon as one of Tony's cronies—in the position of the person he had fired, then there would be an outcry. It would be so embarrassing that he would not embark on that situation.

I think I have said all that I can expect your Lordships sympathetically to listen to. I strongly support both amendments.