Higher Education Bill

Part of the debate – in the House of Lords at 12:30 pm on 13 May 2004.

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Photo of Baroness Seccombe Baroness Seccombe Shadow Minister, Public Services, Health & Education, Deputy Chief Whip, Parliament, Deputy Chief Whip, Whips 12:30, 13 May 2004

As I understand it, Amendment No. 54 would exempt those working in public service jobs where relatively low pay makes recruitment difficult due to the inability to repay fees. Amendment No. 55 would encourage young people to undertake voluntary service.

We strongly support the idea of the "public good" and put on record our unwavering admiration for those who work in occupations that achieve this. We also recognise the problems of pay within the sectors outlined in the amendment. However, I cannot agree that public good can be achieved only by those working, for example, in the NHS. The practice of medicine is a public good wherever one works. The amendment discriminates against a wide range of people and professions. It also creates divisions within professions. Is it also right or fair to suggest that those who carry out jobs that provide a public good, but did not require a degree course to do so, should be treated differently from those who had to obtain a degree in order to qualify? Public good is public good, regardless of whether it has a degree course to back it up.

Turing to the drafting of the amendment, can the noble Baroness, Lady Sharp explain what paragraph (c) covers? Does "staff in the NHS" cover the cooks and cleaners as well as the nurses, doctors and ambulance drivers? With regard to paragraph (a) and the discussion on my noble friend Lord Renfrew's amendment, perhaps she could have considered—as he so rightly said—including academics in this new clause.

I now turn briefly to Amendment No. 55. Here, too, I commend all those who work in, or offer their services to, the voluntary sector. We recognise the invaluable work that is done in so many different ways, and we are mindful that there are never enough volunteers. As we have already debated, the issue of deferred placements due to gap years does give the opportunity for voluntary work, providing benefits for everyone. It can also be an invaluable life-forming experience. However, I do not realistically think that student loans could be paid off in such a way. I have many concerns with this amendment. What type of volunteer work would be included? Does interning for an MP count, as I understand that is often voluntary? Would the volunteer work have to be based in this country? If not, how can we guarantee that policing of the system ensures the necessary amount of work is done? Talking of the amount of work, how would volunteering be measured—by the number of hours worked on a principle as if they were receiving pay, or perhaps in the public good achieved?

I also ask the noble Baroness how she sees these amendments working with EU students and the financial support arrangements they would be allowed. Does she intend them to be covered by these clauses? We sympathise with the sentiment and the reason driving these new clauses, but do not see how they would be fair or how they would work in practice.