Children Bill [HL]

Part of the debate – in the House of Lords at 8:30 pm on 4 May 2004.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Earl Howe Earl Howe Conservative 8:30, 4 May 2004

I am most grateful to all noble Lords who took part in this debate. I was also grateful to the Minister when she said that she would look at the wording highlighted by noble Lords to see whether it could be made a little clearer. However, I am sorry that she resisted the thrust of the argument that I and others attempted to put forward.

The Government's route here may be logical but I suggest that it is not the only logic. It depends on your starting point. If your starting point is the logic that flows from the devolution settlement, if I may use that phrase, you will end up with the Bill as it now is. If your starting point is the advocacy arrangements that children are likely to find simpler, more understandable and less confusing, then I believe that you end up roughly where I suggested in the amendments that I tabled. The arguments advanced by the Minister are essentially top-down arguments, and that is what I find unappealing about them.

I do think that there is merit in re-examining the idea of each country having its own commissioner who fully understands the law of that country as well as its language, culture and demographic characteristics, but the key point is that in each country there should be one person to whom children have easy access and who is in a position to take a holistic view of children's needs. That is the express view of the three current commissioners, who made a joint public statement at the end of March to that effect. The second speech by the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, was extremely powerful in that context.

I worry a little about the term "UK commissioner" because although the Children's Commissioner is described in the Bill as being responsible for children in the United Kingdom, Clause 5 makes it very clear that he will not be concerned with the views and interests of children who fall under the remit of any of the other three commissioners, in relation to devolved matters, nor may he undertake inquiries into any devolved matters. It is therefore a little hard to see how he can be in the fullest sense a UK commissioner.

But we have explored this subject in some depth. We all have much to reflect on between now and Report and it is time to move on. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.