Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims Bill [HL]

Part of the debate – in the House of Lords at 12:15 pm on 25 March 2004.

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Photo of Baroness Scotland of Asthal Baroness Scotland of Asthal Minister of State, Home Office, Minister of State (Home Office) (Criminal Justice and Offender Management) 12:15, 25 March 2004

My Lords, I am very sorry that the noble Lord, Lord Monson, has only just received my letter. I note from my copy that it was sent on 23 March. I know that it sometimes takes a little time. I am sorry that he has not had a longer opportunity to consider it.

The noble Lord has taken a particular interest in the provisions of subsection (4), which is a welcome reflection of his concern to ensure that we do not include anything in the Bill that is unnecessary or misleading. However, as I have previously explained, I am absolutely convinced that Clause 5(4)(b) is necessary. Perhaps I may set out why I believe that that is so.

The measure is important because the process of taking "reasonable steps" is not usually a single event but a course of conduct that takes place over a period of time. Clause 5(4)(a) ensures that a person is not charged with the offence if they are under 16, whereas Clause 5(4)(b) is intended as a safeguard to ensure that, once they have turned 16, they are not held responsible for taking reasonable steps before they were 16.

We see a need to ensure the exclusion of any part of the course of conduct that may have taken place before the defendant's 16th birthday which leaves them in a position now, at age 16, of not having taken reasonable steps. It may be that, even without this clause, a court would not have convicted a person in this situation, but we need to be certain, which is why we have introduced this important safeguard. It was decided that one should have this responsibility at 16-plus, not 16-minus. This provision simply underscores that and puts it beyond doubt.

I hope that the noble Lord will recognise that this clause is not superfluous and that it provides an important and necessary protection within the offence for those who are perhaps under 16 when the course of conduct started, but over 16 by the time the event actually occurred. Those are the reasons. However, I understand why the clarification I have just given was perhaps necessary.