Health and Social Care (Community Health and Standards) Bill

Part of the debate – in the House of Lords at 5:45 pm on 13 October 2003.

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Photo of Lord Clement-Jones Lord Clement-Jones Liberal Democrat 5:45, 13 October 2003

The wind has been somewhat taken out of the sails of Amendment No. 124 by Amendment No. 9 tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Blackwell, on which we had an interesting debate. We on these Benches agreed with the response but it was probably not quite to the taste of the noble Lord, Lord Blackwell.

Amendment No. 124 concerns the issue of whether the status of foundation trusts is accordable under this legislation to bodies other than acute hospital trusts. It has been clearly indicated that in future mental health trusts will be able to benefit from this legislation. However, from the response given by the noble Lord, Lord Warner, on the first day of Committee at col. 188 of Hansard, it seems clear, although there does not appear to be a bar under the Bill, that it is not the intention of the Government to accord foundation status to primary care trusts at this stage under this legislation. Indeed, the noble Lord went as far as to say that he did not think this model was appropriate for primary care trusts.

Be that as it may, the Bill as drafted does not appear to prevent primary care trusts achieving that status. It is in the discretion of the Secretary of State and the regulator. On these Benches we believe that there should be a bar. If the Government are genuine about saying that they do not intend to give foundation status to primary care trusts, we believe that words to that effect should remain on the face of the Bill. I do not intend to debate the issue of the Secretary of State's approval, as we have already had a considerable debate on that relating to applications by NHS trusts, but Clause 5, "Other applications", currently leaves the possibility of a loophole that would allow primary care trusts to attain foundation status.

Not only is the model set out inappropriate for acute hospital trusts, as is well known and as we have made clear throughout discussion of the Bill, it would be even worse when applied to commissioning bodies—primary care trusts. We seek reassurance from the Government; indeed we want them to agree to such a bar in the Bill. I beg to move.