Criminal Justice Bill

Part of the debate – in the House of Lords at 6:49 pm on 15th July 2003.

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Photo of Lord Phillips of Sudbury Lord Phillips of Sudbury Liberal Democrat 6:49 pm, 15th July 2003

I am most grateful for the contribution of the noble Lord, Lord Brennan, and for the Minister's careful summing up. I believe it is a common-sense proposition that in phenomenally complicated matters of law and fact, people of competence and some experience are needed to deal with them. I do not accept that we would be moving into the territory of what the Minister described as "self-selected jury enthusiasts". That certainly would not be the case. I believe that an irreducible complexity is involved in these matters, however well one manages the case. The noble Lord, Lord Brennan, may go on about what happens in America, but we are not in America; we are here. People have been trying to simplify fraud trials for years with little effect.

However, time is getting on. No one is supporting me. I am a thin-skinned fellow and I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.